I'd let a player get away with this, because it does sort of sound like what a sun god should do - bringing light to dark places and so forth.

What you're basicaly asking is for your deity to bend the rules and norms of what it typically does - it doesn't have to, but it might if your prayer is suitably impassioned or desperate.

With a cost, you might wind up with an interesting and inconvenient Geas which you have to follow or lose your powers until you do, or a specific quest to advance the cause of that deity. (Convert 100 heathens to your faith - that's a good one).

"You can do it, but it will cost, and I'm not going to tell you about it in advance." Would be my response to a playr trying that, whereupon they would probably try something else.

Quote from: Rincewind1;674399Yes, with Caster level being the HD/Undead TYpe difficulty.

Mu thoughts, exactly.

Sheesh. It's just a darkness spell. People going all apeshit over how it breaks the rules and sets a precedent for doing whatever you want, blah, blah.

It's. A. Darkness. Spell.

Dude used a Turn Undead to do the equivalent of a 1st-level spell effect. It was in character, in theme, and it persisted the flow of the game.

Honestly, making a big deal out of nothing. When the priest wants to use Turn Undead like a Wish spell, THEN you have a legitimate reason to get all cranky about it.

Quote from: Bill;674885The cleric was out of spells.

Then tough titties.

Quote from: Bill;674885He was attempting to expend a resource to perform a reasonably plausable action that fit the character in a manner that was far from game breaking.

"He" wasn't attempting to do anything. You were trying to find away around the rules which are part of the implied setting of the game.

Stop trying to make yourself sound like this put-upon roleplaying genius. You're just another wanker who got told 'no' by the referee and decided to whine about it on the intrewebs.

Quote from: The_Rooster;675338Sheesh. It's just a darkness spell. People going all apeshit over how it breaks the rules and sets a precedent for doing whatever you want, blah, blah.

It's. A. Darkness. Spell.

Dude used a Turn Undead to do the equivalent of a 1st-level spell effect. It was in character, in theme, and it persisted the flow of the game.

Honestly, making a big deal out of nothing. When the priest wants to use Turn Undead like a Wish spell, THEN you have a legitimate reason to get all cranky about it.

It's a question regarding tactical - resource game of D&D and adherence to it, something that's hard to argue about as it's well, taste. For me, the answer was rather simple, as I adhere to an idea that if I want people to roleplay, I shall reward said roleplaying.

Quote from: Bill;674386You are gming dnd (version might not matter here)

Player of a cleric that worships a Sun god encounters an area of total supernatural darkness (An actual darkness spell, but the character may not know exactly what it is)

The character says "As a cleric if the sun god, I try to banish the darkness!!"
The player asks the gm "Can I expend my turn undead power to try and banish the darkness?"


What would you do, as a gm, in this situation?

That is simple, no you cannot, your timing is horrible.

If you want to be able to expend turn undead to banish darkness/bring light, then that is something you should have mentioned at character generation or during downtime when your cleric is studying and researching more ways of devoting himself to the sun god's cause.  I would work with you if it was a flavorful something you actually wanted to craft your character around.  

But just wanking it out in the middle of the field for a temporary bonus to whatever you happen to be doing?  Nah.

Quote from: Benoist;674497Hm. That's an interesting question. Since turn undead can also work at high levels to banish evil from the lower planes (in First Ed, in any case), it would make sense for a cleric of a Sun deity to banish darkness.

I might allow a roll using the level of the caster of the original darkness spell as the Undead's HD, or less, perhaps mitigated by the weakness/strength of the spell itself, and it would count as the Cleric's attempt to Turn in this particular situation. Like Mcbobbo, I'd probably use the Holy Symbol as a source of light repelling the darkness around the Cleric on a success (same range as Undead kept at bay in such a fashion).

Take the example of the cleric of a Healing god. If I have expended all my spells should I be able to heal someone becuase that is the sort of thing healing gods do? Cleric of a god of lighting? etc

If the darkness is not supernatural (spell), then I'd rule as the deity would think of it. Is it a waste of time and energy from the deity's standpoint? Divine power is not something you use lightly. If all it takes to banish the darkness is to hold a torch against it, you'd probably better do that instead.

I would run it like this. If the darkness was supernatural then turn versus the caster's level as HD. If its not then god would prefer you light a torch.

It is a cool effect but my problem with it would be how does it fit into the wider space. Letting a PC do something cool that relates to their class and background sounds good but if there are skills that cover it or spells that cover it a bit of me thinks you should have saved a spell or argued for the power at character inception.
So I guess I would have hoped that during the charcter's design we could have come up with some cool Sun god type effects and powers and one of those would fit in exchange for something else maybe some combat power.

In the end I would probably allow the roll and see how the party coped when the wights that were hiding in the darkness attacked (kiddin......)

Quote from: Black Vulmea;675372Then tough titties.


"He" wasn't attempting to do anything. You were trying to find away around the rules which are part of the implied setting of the game.

Stop trying to make yourself sound like this put-upon role playing genius. You're just another wanker who got told 'no' by the referee and decided to whine about it on the intrewebs.

You don't know me very well, so I suppose it is not completely irrational to make that assumption.

I don't give a rats ass about finding my way around rules.

I role play; the only good rule is one that fades into the background.

I have never claimed, or intended to suggest I am a role playing genius.

If asked, I would say I am average at role play.

I did not even need to admit I was the player.

I posted this because I wanted to hear peoples opinions on the matter.

Quote from: Old One Eye;675472That is simple, no you cannot, your timing is horrible.

If you want to be able to expend turn undead to banish darkness/bring light, then that is something you should have mentioned at character generation or during downtime when your cleric is studying and researching more ways of devoting himself to the sun god's cause.  I would work with you if it was a flavorful something you actually wanted to craft your character around.  

But just wanking it out in the middle of the field for a temporary bonus to whatever you happen to be doing?  Nah.

Why put a negative spin on it?

Anyway, it is obviously was not a bonus on anything the character happens to doing. It was super limited and specific.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;675372Then tough titties.


"He" wasn't attempting to do anything. You were trying to find away around the rules which are part of the implied setting of the game.

Stop trying to make yourself sound like this put-upon roleplaying genius. You're just another wanker who got told 'no' by the referee and decided to whine about it on the intrewebs.

Exactly, if the guy's out of spells, the guy's out of spells. This is all just player rationalization, too much of which lets spellcasters go nuts.

Imagine a fighter, almost out of hit points, gets hit in the face with a 2h battleaxe wielded by a minotaur...

"But I'm a fighter, I should be able to take blows, so I should be able to survive this no prob..."

Imagine a thief, who's already tried and failed to pick a pocket on the vampire before it turns gaseous...

"But I'm extra sneaky, I should get an extra chance to pick that pocket..."

Imagine a cleric, who's already out of spells, trying to morph some other ability into a spell...

"But I'm cleric of goodness and light I should have an extra way to do that...."

Nah, OD&D allows for such things, but if you're 3.0 or later, you're in a rules heavy system. If you want to play a game where you can imagine all sorts of stuff not on your character sheet, pick a game where your character sheet doesn't look like something off of Excel....

Quote from: Doom;675685Exactly, if the guy's out of spells, the guy's out of spells. This is all just player rationalization, too much of which lets spellcasters go nuts.

Imagine a fighter, almost out of hit points, gets hit in the face with a 2h battleaxe wielded by a minotaur...

"But I'm a fighter, I should be able to take blows, so I should be able to survive this no prob..."

Imagine a thief, who's already tried and failed to pick a pocket on the vampire before it turns gaseous...

"But I'm extra sneaky, I should get an extra chance to pick that pocket..."

Imagine a cleric, who's already out of spells, trying to morph some other ability into a spell...

"But I'm cleric of goodness and light I should have an extra way to do that...."

Nah, OD&D allows for such things, but if you're 3.0 or later, you're in a rules heavy system. If you want to play a game where you can imagine all sorts of stuff not on your character sheet, pick a game where your character sheet doesn't look like something off of Excel....

I don't think the examples you gave are in the same catagory.

All players are not powergaming asshats either.

A fighter ignoring wounds is much more over the top than a cleric of a sun god losing turn undead to try and dispel darkness.

Quote from: Bill;675675Why put a negative spin on it?

Anyway, it is obviously was not a bonus on anything the character happens to doing. It was super limited and specific.

The rules and intent behind D&D are that any magical effect is specifically spelled out.  Banishing the darkness is a magical effect, so the character must have something that specifically says it has that magical effect.  It is not a game where you make up open ended magical abilities on the fly by using anything that makes sense from your character concept.

I'm going to make a Cleric of the god of victory...

Quote from: Planet Algol;675764I'm going to make a Cleric of the god of victory...

Awesome! The power to Invoke: Win! will always come in handy. Think of the roleplay potential.


(The god is based on Charlie Sheen, right?)

Quote from: Old One Eye;675756The rules and intent behind D&D are that any magical effect is specifically spelled out.  Banishing the darkness is a magical effect, so the character must have something that specifically says it has that magical effect.  It is not a game where you make up open ended magical abilities on the fly by using anything that makes sense from your character concept.

You are putting negative spin on it, and vastly overemphasizing the impact of the action.

This is a rare event at best. Far, far from 'anything that makkes sense for the character'