I haven't been blown away by the Age of Sigmar fluff, but I'm open to the newness.  C7 isn't gonna dig into the awesome of early WFB for their fluff and everything in the later fluff feels like rehash.

BTW, have there been any good Age of Sigmar novels?

Quote from: The Butcher;943365Godbound?

Interesting...

If the C7 WFRP isn't Age of Sigmar, there might be value in SineNomine chatting with GW.

Quote from: K Peterson;943323I think it's pretty clear what he meant, because he tacked some details on to the end of the sentence - "with lots of OOC Thematic Story Mechanics (or really any at all)". Does that have anything to do with D&D3e, or the OSR, or a reverse-relationship between D&D3 and WFRP1? No. Then why bring it up? Because otherwise it just sounds like you're doing some ridiculous logic gymnastics to troll your enemies.

Which has only shown in White Wolf 'one true way to play' mechanics, like Humanity.  So I have no idea what he's talking about because there's nothing Story Mechanic about anything he's mentioned in his random screed.  And given that anyone who plays 3.x D&D is obviously 'New School', despite not having anything Story Game about it...  I can only assume he's going on about nothing.  Again.

Quote from: Spinachcat;943375I haven't been blown away by the Age of Sigmar fluff, but I'm open to the newness.  C7 isn't gonna dig into the awesome of early WFB for their fluff and everything in the later fluff feels like rehash.

BTW, have there been any good Age of Sigmar novels?

I've not read the novels,but the rulebook fluff was absolutely abysmal.

For those that missed it, basically after the Old World got blowed up, Sigmar floated through out space all bored and stuff until he met a magic space dragon, and the two became BFFs. The space dragon taught Sigmar magic and he used it to create a new set of "realms": Hysh, Chamon, Ghyran, Azyr, Ulgu, Shyish, Aqshy, and Ghur (wish I was making those names up). Then he used his space magic to bring back to life all his old friends, like Nagash and the Orcs (if thats a WTF moment for you, you're not alone).

Everything was all peachy then until the elves got a stick up their butt about what happened in The Old World and use magic to travel back to the Old World to punish the Chaos god Slaanesh (because thats a plan that makes sense). They end up not being able to find Slaanesh, but by doing this they alert the Chaos gods to the existence of these new realms, so Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch show up and basically turn everywhere into a hellscape and generally fuck the place up, while Sigmar locks himself in his room and pouts. After about a millennia of letting the Chaos gods do whatever they want, Sigmar uses new magic to take a bunch of souls of dead heroes and turn them into space marines. And now the Sigmarines are launching attacks on the various realms, beating up Chaos and looking around for magic items they lost in life.

Oh, and the Skaven managed to dig holes under...well, existence apparently...allowing them to pop up into any realm and be the nasty assholes they've always been, only now they also have Rat Marines ...er, "Stormfiends"...and the Great Horned Rat noticed Slaanesh was missing and basically took his place as the fourth Chaos God.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;943340Geedubs is neeeeeeever gonna allow that dude.  They are the mid-4e stage WotC - but forever.  Unfortunately they're so goddamn popular they can keep pissing on the old guard until they leave and on the new guys and tell 'em it's raining and they'll line up to pay for it.

Two years ago I would have agreed with you. But as of the new man in charge, GW has made a total 180 in both customer relations and making amends to the Old Guard.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;943377The space dragon taught Sigmar magic and he used it to create a new set of "realms": Hysh, Chamon, Ghyran, Azyr, Ulgu, Shyish, Aqshy, and Ghur (wish I was making those names up).

I wish you were too!!

Holy fuck.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;943377Then he used his space magic to bring back to life all his old friends, like Nagash and the Orcs (if thats a WTF moment for you, you're not alone).

Holy WTF.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;943377After about a millennia of letting the Chaos gods do whatever they want, Sigmar uses new magic to take a bunch of souls of dead heroes and turn them into space marines. And now the Sigmarines are launching attacks on the various realms, beating up Chaos and looking around for magic items they lost in life.

I...could be okay with this as a RPG...

...but your take on the setting fluff is incredibly painful, and sadly it matches up with what I've seen discussed on the WFB forums.

Thank you Tristram??

Quote from: Christopher Brady;943318I'm a little confused.  It's been widely established (no idea how accurate, just that I've heard this from multiple sources) that Warhammer Fantasy 1e directly influenced D&D 3e, which has also been reviled by the OSR for being waay to 'New School', so Kruggy's desire of not wanting any thing New School (whatever the fuck that means) is implying that anything WFRPG 1e is not what he wants.  Ergo, means he wants to go back further into the roots, which is the war game.

WFRP 1e is in no way a "New School" game. It's pretty clear from context that CRKrueger is defining a "New School" game as being akin to 2d20. Something like Cortex Plus, Apocalypse Engine, FATE Core, or the like. It's pretty clear he did not mean any game created post 1981.

As for WFRP's influence on D&D3e, it's pretty miminal - prestige classes. The biggest influences, other than D&D, were Rolemaster (skill ranks), Ars Magica (ability modifiers, difficulty classes) and the Fallout videogame (feats). Personally, I always thought that prestige classes were more directly influenced by the Jobs system in the Final Fantasy videogames.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;943318I'm a little confused.  It's been widely established (no idea how accurate, just that I've heard this from multiple sources) that Warhammer Fantasy 1e directly influenced D&D 3e

Your sources are veryveryvery wrong.

Quote from: yojimbouk;943402WFRP 1e is in no way a "New School" game. It's pretty clear from context that CRKrueger is defining a "New School" game as being akin to 2d20. Something like Cortex Plus, Apocalypse Engine, FATE Core, or the like. It's pretty clear he did not mean any game created post 1981.

As for WFRP's influence on D&D3e, it's pretty miminal - prestige classes. The biggest influences, other than D&D, were Rolemaster (skill ranks), Ars Magica (ability modifiers, difficulty classes) and the Fallout videogame (feats). Personally, I always thought that prestige classes were more directly influenced by the Jobs system in the Final Fantasy videogames.

I think Earthdawn might even have a bit of influence. But I dont think even Prestige classes can be blamed on Warhammer.

Quote from: K Peterson;943323I think it's pretty clear what he meant

Quote from: One Horse Town;943313Shut up Brady.

Quote from: The Butcher;943365

Quote from: yojimbouk;943402It's pretty clear from context

Quote from: Tristram Evans;943403Your sources are veryveryvery wrong.

Forget it guys, it's Brady.

Fairly certain Age of Sigmar is a different license (at least on the computer games side of things).

If they are making WFRP4...

Setting - 1e days, before Archaon's 13th Black Crusad...err I mean Storm of Chaos.  Probably will be unable to roll back Bretonnia and the Darklands (never was a big fan of Mongol Ogres), but you never know.  Since it technically doesn't exist anymore as a miniature line, what the hell do they care where you put your game in the established timeline?

System - A blend of 1e and 2e.  

• I liked the larger 1e statline.  
• Moving damage to d10s in 2e helped with Naked Dwarf Syndrome.  
• Careers being kinda wonky was always part of the charm, so keep them.  It's ok to make more of them so you can stay a burglar but become a Cat Burglar, Master Jewel Thief, whatever.
• Don't completely balance everything with perfect math mechanically - it's ok to have, lets say a Templar of the White Wolf career be better, the balance comes through the setting.

Or, just do it in Mythras.
Or, just forget a new system, pick up where 2e left off and finally get around to detailing Tilea, Estalia and Araby.

What not to do...
Don't make it Fate, Xworld, 2d20, WFRP3, Cue, Cortex anything, FU, or in any way, shape or form turn it into a narrative shitshow or use the dissociated, abstract types of rules such games tend to prefer.  (I swear to God, If I see Stress on a WFRP4 character sheet, I'm going to have to use twitter to get Trump to invade England.)
No Savage Worlds.

Having just read up on the Age of Sigmar fluff, I really do not want an Age of Sigmar game. It might make for a good war game but it's an unholy mess of a setting badly stitched together with a laughably poor story.

Give me WFRP 1.5. 1e setting with a tweaked 1e engine.

Age of Sigmar Fluff...you guys forgot the part where after The Old World exploded, Sigmar was kicking back on the metal core of the planet, made of...
wait for it...
Sigmarite.

Age of Sigmar isn't Game Workship fucking WFB fans.  
It's not even Games Workshop ass-fucking fans.
It's Games Workshop Prison Raping fans then giving them a simultaneous Cleveland Steamer/Golden Shower.

Honestly?

With all the radical changes to fluff, 3-4 different variations, divided playerbases and most importantly, a high risk of said RPG being set in Age of Sigmarverse...I can't see any version of Warhammer that'll be significantly better than 1 and 2e.\

It's a license that should die with dignity, when it comes to RPGs.

I'm actually pretty happy with Shadow of the Demon Lord for my weird, dark fantasy kick. WHFRP4E would have to be pretty a pretty exceptional game to get me to look at it. I don't need setting material because...oh my glorb look at all the setting material out there on the Intarwebs.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;943378Two years ago I would have agreed with you. But as of the new man in charge, GW has made a total 180 in both customer relations and making amends to the Old Guard.

Yeah I...I don't believe that.  I mean I'm not calling you a liar but I think they've got one hand extended and yet another dagger in the other.  Or, in the words of the immortal James T. Kirk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjKVGB6JEfs