TheRPGSite

So I've heard that ENworld is in the business of making their own RPGs these days, which I find funny, especially since I've otherwise heard zero buzz about them.

It got me thinking: what would theRPGsite's own RPG be like, if we were to make one? What would it look like? What would its system be? What would its setting be?

Extremely violent, with 5e death saves so everyone can yo-yo from being downed in melee.

System: D&D with BRP-style skills and hit locations. So, in essence, Palladium.

Setting: Planetary Romance Pulp Fantasy in a Hard SciFi Universe.

Production: According to a recent thread, a thin hardcover in a box.

Isn't Lords of Olympus and Dark Albion largely patronised by this site?

Anyway, I think it's likely to be an OSR type game otherwise.

Im sorry. To do the RPGsite justice Pundit would have to make a Swine game.

Chris says something about D&D. Spend disbelief points.
Blackie flips out at random person. Spend who gives a fuck points.
Oppa says something witty. Gain a chuckle point.
Gronan recounts something from the dawn-o-time. Gain an Im getting too old for this point.

I don't know but I imagine that at least 50% of the book would be designer's notes lambasting other games and what they do wrong. :D

I'm guessing something built on a B/X-BECMI clone though I couldn't really say. I'll make a map for it, though. :)

Based upon the fan-base here, I'd guess some sort of OSR where you quest against the evil Social Justice Warriors which are a scourge upon the land.

A B/X game where the party is constantly arguing and shanking each other.

It would definitely be an OSR game and I would love to contribute if this were to become a reality.

Definitely a conventional old school RPG. I would lean heavy toward BECMI D&D influenced.

There just wouldn't be any storygame style mechanics. Given how the attitude about them has been expressed here.

However. What would I expect to come out of this site? Something that innovates on the old school formula. Something that shows the old school isn't old. That the theories behind it are every bit as viable as ever.

Quote from: RPGPundit;965021So I've heard that ENworld is in the business of making their own RPGs these days, which I find funny, especially since I've otherwise heard zero buzz about them.

It got me thinking: what would theRPGsite's own RPG be like, if we were to make one? What would it look like? What would its system be? What would its setting be?

It would probably share one feature of Exalted, namely that no matter what it is, half the player base would consider it has taken the wrong way;).

Like Diplomacy, the negotiation rules would say "Any player can say whatever they like.  A player does not have to keep promises."

Unlike Diplomacy, it would conclude with "If you can't deal with this, boo fucking hoo."

"The League of Extraordinary Assholes":-)

Having purchased and read WOIN from EN publishing, I'm afraid all the suggestions so far (bar the "kind of like Palladium" one) hardly compare to the effort. WOIN is actually a savvy game with some cool ideas within. At this rate, we would have a ways to go to compete with that. Also, since there is already so much OSR stuff, I think theRPGsite offering would be better as a giant sandbox with contributions from the various forum-goers. Lots of tools and ideas you can pilfer for your own game - kind of thing.

Roll stats in order, then roll to see if your adventurer actually survives chargen.

Suck it up if the dice go against you.

Quote from: trechriron;965155Having purchased and read WOIN from EN publishing, I'm afraid all the suggestions so far (bar the "kind of like Palladium" one) hardly compare to the effort. WOIN is actually a savvy game with some cool ideas within. At this rate, we would have a ways to go to compete with that. Also, since there is already so much OSR stuff, I think theRPGsite offering would be better as a giant sandbox with contributions from the various forum-goers. Lots of tools and ideas you can pilfer for your own game - kind of thing.

I bet if people got their shit together even a little bit, something awesome could come out of it. Outline the mechanics you want to use, outline the setting. Assign jobs and let Pundit decide what is in and what is not. Set down those rules from the get go to quell any bickering about what goes in. If this turned out to be a thing, I would certainly allocate time to work on it. I would be willing to bet there are others that would as well. I probably don't get along with many people here, but if they are talking something interesting about a game, then they have my full attention. I think if a project is interesting, then you're not going to let stupid shit get in the way.

Also, in this case don't dismiss what could be accomplished right away. Yes, it may go down in flames but there is no way to know that until you try. There are people here, and whether I like them or not, they have some really useful and interesting information in their heads. If they have some insight on something, or just seem to grok a certain rule, then I want to see it.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;965157Roll stats in order, then roll to see if your adventurer actually survives chargen.

Suck it up if the dice go against you.

Traveller already exists, though I personally wouldn't be averse to an OSR that included a similar mechanic. :D

I've heard ENWorld's 3e campaigns were well done. Anyone played them?

Quote from: cranebump;965150"The League of Extraordinary Assholes":-)

Love it!

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;965024System: D&D with BRP-style skills and hit locations. So, in essence, Palladium.

Setting: Planetary Romance Pulp Fantasy in a Hard SciFi Universe.

Production: According to a recent thread, a thin hardcover in a box.

I'd buy that.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;965123Based upon the fan-base here, I'd guess some sort of OSR where you quest against the evil Social Justice Warriors which are a scourge upon the land.

Easy: (Fantasy) Byzantium against the Visigoths.

Quote from: Spinachcat;965165I'd buy that.

Here's my proposal:

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Not that I've been here a wet weekend... It would probably look like a car crash between WFRP and Castles and Crusades. I mean that in a good way.

It would be a dangerous rule system with a cynical setting (with a British dark sense of humor).

Probably be a game I'd actually buy!

I think if there ever were a real TheRPGsite RPG, it shouldn't be done half-ass. And it should be done with an eye toward what people would actually play and buy.

Just some observations on WOIN and a hypothetical RPGsite book:

-I remember when Morrus first announced this and to me it looked like he waited until he had a very solid idea of what he wanted to do and saw a place in the market for it.

-WOIN is, at least to my understanding, pretty much Morrus' baby, and I think he simply utilized EN World to help him get feedback and stuff like that. It wasn't written by a collective.

-WOIN looks very good, in terms of layout. I haven't played it so I can't comment on the mechanics. I have seen a lot of positive being said about it though online.

-On that point, one of the things people mention here a lot (or at least used to) was that design by committee is a bad way to go, because it can water down the original ideas of the game. I think designing an RPG on a thread, or with a large group of posters, while it might be fun, wouldn't be likely to produce something quality.

-If TheRPGsite did make a game, it should be probably be a game designed by Pundit with heavy feedback and playtest from the people on this site. Personally I'd be more interested in something that does Genre Emulation than an OSR book, since I think the latter is pretty saturated and Pundit always had very good ideas on genre emulation.

-Not saying we should necessarily do this, just if we did, we want to make 100% sure it has the best chance of being successful as possible.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;965266I think if there ever were a real TheRPGsite RPG, it shouldn't be done half-ass. And it should be done with an eye toward what people would actually play and buy.

Just some observations on WOIN and a hypothetical RPGsite book:

-I remember when Morrus first announced this and to me it looked like he waited until he had a very solid idea of what he wanted to do and saw a place in the market for it.

-WOIN is, at least to my understanding, pretty much Morrus' baby, and I think he simply utilized EN World to help him get feedback and stuff like that. It wasn't written by a collective.

-WOIN looks very good, in terms of layout. I haven't played it so I can't comment on the mechanics. I have seen a lot of positive being said about it though online.

-On that point, one of the things people mention here a lot (or at least used to) was that design by committee is a bad way to go, because it can water down the original ideas of the game. I think designing an RPG on a thread, or with a large group of posters, while it might be fun, wouldn't be likely to produce something quality.

-If TheRPGsite did make a game, it should be probably be a game designed by Pundit with heavy feedback and playtest from the people on this site. Personally I'd be more interested in something that does Genre Emulation than an OSR book, since I think the latter is pretty saturated and Pundit always had very good ideas on genre emulation.

-Not saying we should necessarily do this, just if we did, we want to make 100% sure it has the best chance of being successful as possible.

Au contraire. If anything, theRPGsite would birth a multitude of very different RPGs with no regard for potential success.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;965268Au contraire. If anything, theRPGsite would birth a multitude of very different RPGs with no regard for potential success.

Arguably it already has done that. But if you are talking about doing an official TheRPGsite RPG, it should be a serious endeavor that doesn't just assume cool detachment will result in success or quality.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;965268Au contraire. If anything, theRPGsite would birth a multitude of very different RPGs with no regard for potential success.

That's why people make their own games. Too many cooks with different opinions...

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;965269Arguably it already has done that. But if you are talking about doing an official TheRPGsite RPG, it should be a serious endeavor that doesn't just assume cool detachment will result in success or quality.

But cool detachment should be required, or it wouldn't be TheRPGSite's game;)!

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;965269Arguably it already has done that. But if you are talking about doing an official TheRPGsite RPG, it should be a serious endeavor that doesn't just assume cool detachment will result in success or quality.

It won't ensure success or quality. It will simply ensure that people might have a chance of communicating for a little while. :D

Quote from: AsenRG;965271But cool detachment should be required, or it wouldn't be TheRPGSite's game;)!

I thought to be TheRPGSite's game it required swearing and fart jokes?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;965351I thought to be TheRPGSite's game it required swearing and fart jokes?

That would be coldly detached swearing and fart jokes.

Quote from: AsenRG;965372That would be coldly detached swearing and fart jokes.

No OOC genre rules, dammit!

I think the important question would not be how this mythical rpg would function, so much as why.

Tie down a setting and engage in world building then decide on mechanics to allow the vision to take wing, so to speak.

So the question is do we want a fantasy setting, modern, or sci-fi? And once that is established, what is the primary conceit for player interaction with said setting?

The system needs to use d4s. Exclusively. It also needs to use a LOT of d4s. Dice pools are tossed excitedly into the air and not just the numbers but WHERE the dice land determine outcome. The speed at which you pick up your last dice pool determines your action order in the next round.

It would be the antithesis of whatever TBP is into.

A better question would be what each member of theRPGsite ideal RPG would be like. Except for Pundit of course, as he has plenty of games already published.

Even if this doesn't end up being a thing, it would be interesting to see who might be interested in collaborative work. Herding cats may be hard, but maybe some of the cats can work things out on their own. :D

It would be a boxed set.  The box would be purple.  It would have a one word title written in red:  Banned.  Curiosity would surely get people to buy it...

Quote from: Doc Sammy;965593A better question would be what each member of theRPGsite ideal RPG would be like. Except for Pundit of course, as he has plenty of games already published.

I'll let you know when I'm finished with mine.

I've got some ideas... I'm not posting them. Just in case I get motivated enough to pull them from my back pocket!

Quote from: Krimson;965598Even if this doesn't end up being a thing, it would be interesting to see who might be interested in collaborative work. Herding cats may be hard, but maybe some of the cats can work things out on their own. :D

I can't imagine a group this opinionated being able to get anything done. Working together takes some sublimation of the ego, and you have people trumpeting their casual dickery in their sigs. Throw in everyone's sacred cows (including political ones that cause dick shrinkage and "j'accuse!" by the SWG's [Screaming White Guys] at even one wiff of possible leftism) and you've got a classic clusterfuck.

Now, if you can get some of the like-minded people (as far as expectations for a system) together, you might have something. But trying to shoehorn 50 square pegs into 6 round holes would seem a bridge too far. Good luck, though, if anyone wants to try.

Quote from: AsenRG;965372That would be coldly detached swearing and fart jokes.

There is your best bet for success.:-)

Quote from: Krimson;965598Even if this doesn't end up being a thing, it would be interesting to see who might be interested in collaborative work. Herding cats may be hard, but maybe some of the cats can work things out on their own. :D

Yeah, it would indeed... I guess it's trying to get 'X' amount of people together with similar ideas of what a rules system should be. I personally love dark and low fantasy gaming so that's me probably out of the running if everybody wants to play something with D&D style levels.

Quote from: cranebump;966105I can't imagine a group this opinionated being able to get anything done. Working together takes some sublimation of the ego, and you have people trumpeting their casual dickery in their sigs. Throw in everyone's sacred cows (including political ones that cause dick shrinkage and "j'accuse!" by the SWG's [Screaming White Guys] at even one wiff of possible leftism) and you've got a classic clusterfuck.

Now, if you can get some of the like-minded people (as far as expectations for a system) together, you might have something. But trying to shoehorn 50 square pegs into 6 round holes would seem a bridge too far. Good luck, though, if anyone wants to try.

If we managed to compromise enough on everything to make one set of rules, would any of us want to play it?

Quote from: Skarg;966133If we managed to compromise enough on everything to make one set of rules, would any of us want to play it?

Yeah, I'd say so... Especially after you put the effort in and liked the system.

Quote from: Skarg;966133If we managed to compromise enough on everything to make one set of rules, would any of us want to play it?

Good question. Style-wise, I see a lot of things to like, based on observations of people's posts. My litmus test is crunch level. I'd prefer a simple base, simple resolution mechanic.

If I had to guess, the system would probably feature a short rules section, a much lengthier reference section (spells, etc. taking up a large section of the tome(s)). I don't think it would be too fussy, in the core.

I will say this -- every time I solicit interesting ideas for campaign play, I always get back awesome, awesome, stuff. I therefore think an "RPG SITE" game isn't a game at all, but a sandbox setting filled with everyone's very creative takes on adventures. A book of RPG SITES, as it were. Setting agnostic, I guess.

Quote from: cranebump;966107There is your best bet for success.:-)

I know, right?

Quote from: cranebump;966145Good question. Style-wise, I see a lot of things to like, based on observations of people's posts. My litmus test is crunch level. I'd prefer a simple base, simple resolution mechanic.

If I had to guess, the system would probably feature a short rules section, a much lengthier reference section (spells, etc. taking up a large section of the tome(s)). I don't think it would be too fussy, in the core.

I will say this -- every time I solicit interesting ideas for campaign play, I always get back awesome, awesome, stuff. I therefore think an "RPG SITE" game isn't a game at all, but a sandbox setting filled with everyone's very creative takes on adventures. A book of RPG SITES, as it were. Setting agnostic, I guess.

I'd rather have it be system agnostic, myself. TRS could come up with interesting setting, it would be a waste to squander the opportunity.

Start with system. Make crunch optional. Make sure it covers every genre. What's so hard? :rolleyes:

Quote from: Dumarest;965051I don't know but I imagine that at least 50% of the book would be designer's notes lambasting other games and what they do wrong. :D

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;965123Based upon the fan-base here, I'd guess some sort of OSR where you quest against the evil Social Justice Warriors which are a scourge upon the land.

Going from the first few pages of this thread and the general atmosphere here I'll go with these and them some. :D

Quote from: cranebump;966105I can't imagine a group this opinionated being able to get anything done. Working together takes some sublimation of the ego, and you have people trumpeting their casual dickery in their sigs. Throw in everyone's sacred cows (including political ones that cause dick shrinkage and "j'accuse!" by the SWG's [Screaming White Guys] at even one wiff of possible leftism) and you've got a classic clusterfuck.

Now, if you can get some of the like-minded people (as far as expectations for a system) together, you might have something. But trying to shoehorn 50 square pegs into 6 round holes would seem a bridge too far. Good luck, though, if anyone wants to try.

SWGs. Heh, I like that.

Seems like maybe the GM needs to just pick/invent his favorite rule system, or at least combat system. Or have almost every rules section marked Optional or Pick A B or C. ;)

The tricky part to me seems like balance that can survive using different systems and/or knob positions for our different tastes in power levels of things.

That's not even thinking about narrativium.

Little more seriously, I think there's more of a range of playstyles and preferences present on this board than it gets credit for, even from the members so a single representative game would be difficult in any thing but a symbolic sense, essentially a mascot based the site's rep mpore than the reality. As such it would have great deal of largely pointless profanity and "Fuck you" Tough Guy tone.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;965028Isn't Lords of Olympus and Dark Albion largely patronised by this site?

Not specifically, no.  Both have large fan bases of people who don't come here, though of course there's a lot of people here who like it too.

An RPGSite RPG would be an OSR Rift's-like game that crossed multiple genres with a simple, but flexible system.

It would be more setting than rules.

But heathen apostates would demand it would be Modular.

And from Modularity would begin the coming of the Crunch. At first it would only be a textural thing. Then it would calcify and divide us. Lines would be drawn. Sides would be taken. Tribes would be formed. And then RPGSite Nerdzerker Wars would begin.

It would be glorious.

Quote from: tenbones;966932An RPGSite RPG would be an OSR Rift's-like game that crossed multiple genres with a simple, but flexible system.

It would be more setting than rules.

But heathen apostates would demand it would be Modular.

And from Modularity would begin the coming of the Crunch. At first it would only be a textural thing. Then it would calcify and divide us. Lines would be drawn. Sides would be taken. Tribes would be formed. And then RPGSite Nerdzerker Wars would begin.

So.... Tuesday then?  :D

It's 4am here and I got the best idea. I win, game over.

TheRPGsite shouldn't produce an RPG... It's should produce a magazine. The Mad Magazine of RPGs. It would focus on gamer articles, social issues, politics (all of which relate to the hobby) and of coarse RPG reviews and a host of other shit that I can't think of right now. But really this is the strength of this forum and it's members. Start quarterly, get an illustrator to do a strip, which pokes fun at everyone here and on the internet... crowdfunding scammers etc. there is a wealth of those.

Parody and the like, and people will love to hate it.

Plus it would best magazine ever because instead of paying freelancer artists and writers straight up. It would give each of them a % for the contributions. Which in turn would give reasons for contributors to promote the thing. TheRPGsite, shouldn't be doing what EN World is doing, it should do it's own thing, and get down with its bad self. I'll take 1% of the first issue. You're welcome I win!

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;967110It's 4am here and I got the best idea. I win, game over.

TheRPGsite shouldn't produce an RPG... It's should produce a magazine. The Mad Magazine of RPGs. It would focus on gamer articles, social issues, politics (all of which relate to the hobby) and of coarse RPG reviews and a host of other shit that I can't think of right now. But really this is the strength of this forum and it's members. Start quarterly, get an illustrator to do a strip, which pokes fun at everyone here and on the internet... crowdfunding scammers etc. there is a wealth of those.

Parody and the like, and people will love to hate it.

Plus it would best magazine ever because instead of paying freelancer artists and writers straight up. It would give each of them a % for the contributions. Which in turn would give reasons for contributors to promote the thing. TheRPGsite, shouldn't be doing what EN World is doing, it should do it's own thing, and get down with its bad self. I'll take 1% of the first issue. You're welcome I win!

Hey!! This is a good idea (I would contribute).

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;967110It's 4am here and I got the best idea. I win, game over.

TheRPGsite shouldn't produce an RPG... It's should produce a magazine. The Mad Magazine of RPGs. It would focus on gamer articles, social issues, politics (all of which relate to the hobby) and of coarse RPG reviews and a host of other shit that I can't think of right now. But really this is the strength of this forum and it's members. Start quarterly, get an illustrator to do a strip, which pokes fun at everyone here and on the internet... crowdfunding scammers etc. there is a wealth of those.

Parody and the like, and people will love to hate it.

Plus it would best magazine ever because instead of paying freelancer artists and writers straight up. It would give each of them a % for the contributions. Which in turn would give reasons for contributors to promote the thing. TheRPGsite, shouldn't be doing what EN World is doing, it should do it's own thing, and get down with its bad self. I'll take 1% of the first issue. You're welcome I win!

This actually really is a good idea.

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;967110The Mad Magazine of RPGs.

That would be pretty cool. I assume you mean Mad as it used to be, i.e., funny and ad-free, rather than what currently passes for Mad, i.e., the Warner Bros. mouthpiece chockfull of ads.

Quote from: Dumarest;967181That would be pretty cool. I assume you mean Mad as it used to be, i.e., funny and ad-free, rather than what currently passes for Mad, i.e., the Warner Bros. mouthpiece chockfull of ads.

Yes, MAD as it started. Minimal, if any ads.

Just for the record I have absolutely no intention of making an "RPGsite RPG".  The thread was purely meant for amusement purposes.

Quote from: RPGPundit;968384Just for the record I have absolutely no intention of making an "RPGsite RPG".  The thread was purely meant for amusement purposes.

But still. You have to admit the magazine thing is a good idea. Such a great candidate for the theRPGSite award for excellence!

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;967110It's 4am here and I got the best idea. I win, game over.

TheRPGsite shouldn't produce an RPG... It's should produce a magazine. The Mad Magazine of RPGs. It would focus on gamer articles, social issues, politics (all of which relate to the hobby) and of coarse RPG reviews and a host of other shit that I can't think of right now. But really this is the strength of this forum and it's members. Start quarterly, get an illustrator to do a strip, which pokes fun at everyone here and on the internet... crowdfunding scammers etc. there is a wealth of those.

Parody and the like, and people will love to hate it.

Isn't this essentially what YDIS was? Except it took pokes at both the left and right, including the Pundit himself?

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Quote from: Voros;968949Isn't this essentially what YDIS was? Except it took pokes at both the left and right, including the Pundit himself?

In the words of Hank Hill: "No Luanne, that's not right at all."

I saw that "Your Dungeon" site...it's sometimes funny in a vicious Schadenfreude way but largely seems to be scatological rather than satirical or parodic, so not really humor in the vein of Mad.

That wasn't a 'humor' site, it was a trolling site by people who despised the OSR. Claiming they're like Mad Magazine would be like if I started a 'lighthearted comedy site' about the Forge.  They didn't "take a poke" at me, you ass, they engaged in open libel and attempted defamation for the purpose of trying to drive me out of the hobby.

But luckily you laughed it off and drove yourself smack dab into the midst of the OSR whether they like it or not!

Quote from: RPGPundit;969966That wasn't a 'humor' site, it was a trolling site by people who despised the OSR. Claiming they're like Mad Magazine would be like if I started a 'lighthearted comedy site' about the Forge.  They didn't "take a poke" at me, you ass, they engaged in open libel and attempted defamation for the purpose of trying to drive me out of the hobby.

Should I have said 'shit all over'?

I didn't see anything libellous, to be libel doesn't it have to be believable? And it mostly seemed to be restricted to claiming you were gay, which is juvenile but not exactly libellous. But I never read everything on there and it was pretty unhinged so I assume you must be talking about some harsher stuff, like the BS Fail Forward claims?

Quote from: RPGPundit;969966That wasn't a 'humor' site, it was a trolling site by people who despised the OSR. Claiming they're like Mad Magazine would be like if I started a 'lighthearted comedy site' about the Forge.  They didn't "take a poke" at me, you ass, they engaged in open libel and attempted defamation for the purpose of trying to drive me out of the hobby.

Never was convinced that YDIS hated OSR. Some remarks on that site showed a rather deep understanding of old school D&D and OSR output.

I always thought it was somebody inside the OSR.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;970033Never was convinced that YDIS hated OSR. Some remarks on that site showed a rather deep understanding of old school D&D and OSR output.

I always thought it was somebody inside the OSR.

That's not exactly impossible, since Pundit can make people feel strongly about him:D!

OTOH, what is "deep understanding" to one person, is "an unfortunate part of my life" to others. People that tried old school games and had a bad time with them because it wasn't the kind of game they enjoy might come to hate Pundit even more easily than OSR people;).

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;970033I always thought it was somebody inside the OSR.

Me too.  Although for the record, I have no idea who it is.  (I've been a target, although to nowhere near the extent that others have.)

Quote from: RPGPundit;969966That wasn't a 'humor' site, it was a trolling site by people who despised the OSR. Claiming they're like Mad Magazine would be like if I started a 'lighthearted comedy site' about the Forge.  They didn't "take a poke" at me, you ass, they engaged in open libel and attempted defamation for the purpose of trying to drive me out of the hobby.

Just read a lot more from that site than I intended. Leaving aside the impossibility of being driven from a hobby, it certainly was mean-spirited and not very funny. He certainly hates Arrows of Indra and Pundit. But his real invective was saved for Raggi and Malislewski (probably spelled that wrong). Being so juvenile, it would be a tall order for it to rise to the level of libel or defamation. Anyone can see it's just bullshit invective, and not all that creative at that.

Quote from: cranebump;970214Just read a lot more from that site than I intended. Leaving aside the impossibility of being driven from a hobby, it certainly was mean-spirited and not very funny. He certainly hates Arrows of Indra and Pundit. But his real invective was saved for Raggi and Malislewski (probably spelled that wrong). Being so juvenile, it would be a tall order for it to rise to the level of libel or defamation. Anyone can see it's just bullshit invective, and not all that creative at that.

Though the "guest article" by Maliszewski was quite funny and on point, if you knew Grognardia's writing at the time.

Most of it wasn't funny but it clearly was trying to be funny. The 5e PHB errata made me laugh.