With No-Consequence Dark Powers, Nu-Ravenloft is a Scooby-Themepark Setting

[Renegade_Productions]

As I see it, "Play it however you want" is something players say when they *don't* regard RPGs as therapy or otherwise important, but just as a fun pastime. For example, I might not like how some edition of a game is written. In that case, I don't like it for myself and wouldn't want to play it. If other people play it and like it, though, I don't care and I don't think they're harming themselves or others.

In some ways, yes, but as Pundit pointed out with D&D becoming a tool for indoctrination, the 'you can do no wrong' idea takes on a much more insidious angle.

Remember the Critical Role players who got upset that one of the PCs died thanks to Mercer not fudging the dice to keep them alive? Imagine people like that playing D&D with you. Imagine what they'd do if you played the game as it's supposed to be played, or as it was in 2nd Edition where it states, verbatim: "When a character reaches 0 HP, the character is slain."

Then again, as has been stated before, if someone is that fragile mentally with regards to a harmless game if not life in general, they shouldn't be playing it or able to affect the direction of the product. Sadly though, that Consent Guide and this nu-Ravenloft is a pretty good sign this perversion of D&D as a game won't stop anytime soon.

[Ghostmaker]

As I see it, "Play it however you want" is something players say when they *don't* regard RPGs as therapy or otherwise important, but just as a fun pastime. For example, I might not like how some edition of a game is written. In that case, I don't like it for myself and wouldn't want to play it. If other people play it and like it, though, I don't care and I don't think they're harming themselves or others.

In some ways, yes, but as Pundit pointed out with D&D becoming a tool for indoctrination, the 'you can do no wrong' idea takes on a much more insidious angle.

Remember the Critical Role players who got upset that one of the PCs died thanks to Mercer not fudging the dice to keep them alive? Imagine people like that playing D&D with you. Imagine what they'd do if you played the game as it's supposed to be played, or as it was in 2nd Edition where it states, verbatim: "When a character reaches 0 HP, the character is slain."

Then again, as has been stated before, if someone is that fragile mentally with regards to a harmless game if not life in general, they shouldn't be playing it or able to affect the direction of the product. Sadly though, that Consent Guide and this nu-Ravenloft is a pretty good sign this perversion of D&D as a game won't stop anytime soon.

Personally, I dislike killing PCs solely because the dice didn't roll in their favor.

Now, if they do something stupid, well... to quote Niven's Oath of Fealty, just think of it as evolution in action.

[Omega]

On the upshot, if history repeats itself (or at least rhymes), we'll be seeing a revolt against the new establishment very soon.

After all, the CCA isn't really much of anything any more.

It is, just not in the form it was before. SJW cult infestation of comics IS the CCA all over again and its getting worse. Again.

Hopefully the bubble bursts before the next wave of this stupid.

[Renegade_Productions]

Personally, I dislike killing PCs solely because the dice didn't roll in their favor.

Now, if they do something stupid, well... to quote Niven's Oath of Fealty, just think of it as evolution in action.

The Critical Role crowd strikes me as the latter, honestly. And those types drive me nuts.

[jhkim]

On the upshot, if history repeats itself (or at least rhymes), we'll be seeing a revolt against the new establishment very soon.

After all, the CCA isn't really much of anything any more.

Isn't the OSR a revolt against the current establishment within RPGs? It seems like OSR games are going strong and getting good distribution.

From my view, the problem with the CCA wasn't that CCA-compliant comics existed -- it was that it was impossible to publish without the CCA. As a father who raised a comics-loving kid, I appreciated having kid-friendly comics compared to a lot of the grimdark shit that was dominant for a while. But I also like at least some of the darker comics.

[Omega]

The OSR was a fake movement to cash in on WOTCs multiple blunders. THEN by pure chance became a resistance cell against the Forge, GNS and Pundits Swine who were laying the foundations for the new wave of Woke cult. Ron and Co. more or less unified the fractional OSR with their incessant attacks on older styles of play and trying to re-write history to read that Storygaming was the one true way from the start.

[jhkim]

The OSR was a fake movement to cash in on WOTCs multiple blunders. THEN by pure chance became a resistance cell against the Forge, GNS and Pundits Swine who were laying the foundations for the new wave of Woke cult. Ron and Co. more or less unified the fractional OSR with their incessant attacks on older styles of play and trying to re-write history to read that Storygaming was the one true way from the start.

What are you saying is the timeline here? I would say that the heyday of The Forge was around 2002 to 2006. By 2006 it was already in decline, and discussion dispersing to other forums. At that time, Pundit's preferred system was True20. Retro-clones like OSRIC were starting out under the Open Gaming License, but I'm not sure the term "OSR" had even been coined yet.

In 2008, WotC debuted 4e - which was a blunder - but it was clearly video-gamish and/or collectible-card-gamish, not storygaming.

I think the OSR started to come together just in the 2010s. In the 2010s, FATE and Powered-by-the-Apocalypse games started to get a strong following, but by that time, Ron Edwards had dropped off the map.

[Omega]

Ron may have become more obscure. But the impact was still present a good while after. Even now theres still little flareups and attempts to try again to co-opt gaming. But its lost alot of its thrust now.

[jhkim]

The OSR was a fake movement to cash in on WOTCs multiple blunders. THEN by pure chance became a resistance cell against the Forge, GNS and Pundits Swine who were laying the foundations for the new wave of Woke cult. Ron and Co. more or less unified the fractional OSR with their incessant attacks on older styles of play and trying to re-write history to read that Storygaming was the one true way from the start.

What are you saying is the timeline here? I would say that the heyday of The Forge was around 2002 to 2006. By 2006 it was already in decline, and discussion dispersing to other forums. At that time, Pundit's preferred system was True20. Retro-clones like OSRIC were starting out under the Open Gaming License, but I'm not sure the term "OSR" had even been coined yet.

In 2008, WotC debuted 4e - which was a blunder - but it was clearly video-gamish and/or collectible-card-gamish, not storygaming.

I think the OSR started to come together just in the 2010s. In the 2010s, FATE and Powered-by-the-Apocalypse games started to get a strong following, but by that time, Ron Edwards had dropped off the map.

Ron may have become more obscure. But the impact was still present a good while after. Even now theres still little flareups and attempts to try again to co-opt gaming. But its lost alot of its thrust now.

I don't disagree that it had continuing impact. But the point is that Ron's GNS crusade was already in the past as the OSR started to pick up steam with the release of 4E. Also, Ron's crusade wasn't political at all - there was nothing woke about it, and indeed plenty that was unwoke in games like Sorcerer. Likewise, Pundit's counter-crusade was much less political at the start, and he at first championed True20 as his preferred system, which is far from old-school.

~2000: WotC releases 3E

~2000-2006: Ron & Co make incessant attacks on older styles of play and trying to re-write history to read that storygaming was the one true way from the start

~2006: Nascent OSR with the release of OSRIC

~2006: Pundit makes attacks on swine including storygaming and Blue Rose, with political overtones, championing True20

~2008: WotC releases 4E

~2009: OSR picks up steam with Swords & Wizardry

In the 2010s, storygaming started to go more mainstream and more political. It abandoned Ron's one true way, and instead adopted more hybrid games like Dungeon World (2012). They supported licensed games like Dresden Files (2010) and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying (2012).

~2014: WotC releases 5E

Over all this time, political conflict has become increasingly important to RPG discussion.

[Bedrockbrendan]

Just based on what I have seen him say on youtube videos about games, I suspect Ron Edwards wouldn't be much of a fan of the new Ravenloft (or old Ravenloft for that matter)

[Spinachcat]

So...libtards without a moral compass made a game without a moral compass?

Shocking!

The balance of "corruption will destroy you eventually" vs. "we needs/wants kewl powerz" is not just interesting storytelling and mythmaking, but it's good game design.

[Jaeger]

Ron may have become more obscure. But the impact was still present a good while after. Even now there's still little flareups and attempts to try again to co-opt gaming. But its lost a lot of its thrust now.

I think that one thing that he was very influential in doing was making the story gaming nomenclature very pervasive in lingua franca of the hobby. I see on various forums people tossing around terms like 'narrative' 'simulation' 'story' and 'fiction' like free candy.

Although they are probably not using those words in the way he hoped...

We are in the "storytelling system" era 2.0 - Except instead of White Wolf telling everyone about how you can do real "storytelling" with their Vampire RPG - this time it is WOTC telling everyone all about the different stories you can tell playing 5e D&D.

[TJS]

I think it's the critical role influence but these days I see the biggest use of 'story' as being something the GM plans. 

Which puts us back to the way gaming was in the 90s really.

Which I'm not sure is all that good a place to be, but it does kind of erase Edwards' influence.

[BoxCrayonTales]

Ron may have become more obscure. But the impact was still present a good while after. Even now there's still little flareups and attempts to try again to co-opt gaming. But its lost a lot of its thrust now.

I think that one thing that he was very influential in doing was making the story gaming nomenclature very pervasive in lingua franca of the hobby. I see on various forums people tossing around terms like 'narrative' 'simulation' 'story' and 'fiction' like free candy.

Although they are probably not using those words in the way he hoped...

We are in the "storytelling system" era 2.0 - Except instead of White Wolf telling everyone about how you can do real "storytelling" with their Vampire RPG - this time it is WOTC telling everyone all about the different stories you can tell playing 5e D&D.

We also seem to be in the d20 boom 2.0. D&D is bigger than ever, and everybody is using the OGL to try and get a piece of the pie.

To be fair, D&D is already such a hodgepodge of elements that you can, with sufficient tweaking, play most kinds of fantasy.

[Omega]

Just based on what I have seen him say on youtube videos about games, I suspect Ron Edwards wouldn't be much of a fan of the new Ravenloft (or old Ravenloft for that matter)

Funny as based on what I saw of his writing for Champions he might like it as it follows more his storytelling ideals in some ways. But he might not like it because its not woke enough.