Geez, man, I was almost kinda hoping that the resurrection of GW would possibly lead to a new edition of Star Frontiers, but if this is how they redid GW I hope to god they don't do a new version of star frontiers....

Quote from: Cylonophile;409382Geez, man, I was almost kinda hoping that the resurrection of GW would possibly lead to a new edition of Star Frontiers, but if this is how they redid GW I hope to god they don't do a new version of star frontiers....

What upsets you about GW?

Quote from: Benoist;409383What upsets you about GW?

Regaining ALL hitpoints after a short rest? (Nah, I'm cool with that shotgun blast to the chest, just lemme tape a little nap here...)

If you use ammo more than once you run out. (Hey, he fired a full burst and still has ammo but I'm dry after 2 single shots on two turns?!)

Quote from: Cylonophile;409385Regaining ALL hitpoints after a short rest? (Nah, I'm cool with that shotgun blast to the chest, just lemme tape a little nap here...)

And yet, are you happy with the classic situation that a character may have lost 99% of his hit points and still be able to skip, jump and fight unhindered and he only goes down when he loses that final hit point?

Quote from: Cylonophile;409385Regaining ALL hitpoints after a short rest? (Nah, I'm cool with that shotgun blast to the chest, just lemme tape a little nap here...)

If you use ammo more than once you run out. (Hey, he fired a full burst and still has ammo but I'm dry after 2 single shots on two turns?!)

I see what you mean. The hitpoint recharge after a short rest took me by surprise as well. I'm going to wait and see how that unfolds in the game proper, but I a priori don't like the idea that the only way to kill a character would be to deplete its HP in one Encounter, otherwise he would be back to full HP the next one. I think I'd houserule that out and reinstate regaining all HPs after an extended rest (with the understanding that, though HPs always have been a mixture of things like energy, second winds etc besides health, in 4e they are more than ever, imo, -not- health).

It depends on the big picture really. It's a bit early for me to make that kind of judgment before seeing the full system.

As for the ammo. Depends how it's played out. I'm not against abstract ammo counts per se. We'll see.

Quote from: Spinachcat;409369D&D 5e is coming.  I just wonder if Shadowrun 4e or WoD 3e will come out first.

Given the current situation for the last two franchises (and/or their respective publishers), I'll put my money on 5e D&D coming out first.

I am also surprised by the full regain of HP after a short rest.

It negates the need for healing skills, powers, gear and deeply affects the ability of GW to tell stories where resource management is important.

But maybe that's the point.  Maybe it will lead to the telling of different stories.  

In Champions, most battles are about your Stun which will regen to full a minute after any battle.  It fits fine for the superhero genre and maybe GW is going for that similar storytelling.

We shall see.

Quote from: Soylent Green;409391And yet, are you happy with the classic situation that a character may have lost 99% of his hit points and still be able to skip, jump and fight unhindered and he only goes down when he loses that final hit point?

Actually, sport, most of the systems I like tend to have wound modifiers so that sort of BS doesn't happen.

I'm not a d20 player, but I would still have been sort of happy if star frontiers had gotten a reboot, until I saw how they'd dumbed down the system

Quote from: Benoist;409392I see what you mean. The hitpoint recharge after a short rest took me by surprise as well. I'm going to wait and see how that unfolds in the game proper, but I a priori don't like the idea that the only way to kill a character would be to deplete its HP in one Encounter, otherwise he would be back to full HP the next one. I think I'd houserule that out and reinstate regaining all HPs after an extended rest (with the understanding that, though HPs always have been a mixture of things like energy, second winds etc besides health, in 4e they are more than ever, imo, -not- health).

It depends on the big picture really. It's a bit early for me to make that kind of judgment before seeing the full system.

As for the ammo. Depends how it's played out. I'm not against abstract ammo counts per se. We'll see.

I think they're dumbing down RPGs to the level of video games, where you can lose a lotof hit points and just magically restore them in some way, like eating, using a medkit, etc.

"Healing times? Maximum healing rates? Oh, dearie, those are just soooo old school and boring. If we have people having to take days or more to fully heal, why, they'll get bored."

Really, I see a lot of WotC stuff trying to be  more a tabletop version of a videogame than a RPG like they used to be.

Quote from: Cylonophile;409401I think they're dumbing down RPGs to the level of video games, where you can lose a lotof hit points and just magically restore them in some way, like eating, using a medkit, etc.

"Healing times? Maximum healing rates? Oh, dearie, those are just soooo old school and boring. If we have people having to take days or more to fully heal, why, they'll get bored."

Really, I see a lot of WotC stuff trying to be  more a tabletop version of a videogame than a RPG like they used to be.

I know some people will deny this vehemently, but I agree with you, and really, why wouldn't they? I can't say I like it, but then I'm more "old school" (although I really don't like that label). The thing is, DnD's main competition is really video games, rather than other rpgs. I see it with my GF's teen and his friends. They LOVE xbox, and xbl, and spend hours playing. Given a choice, they are almost always going to choose the xbox over any ttrpg. I have gotten them to play Munchkin, which they love. They have expressed interest in RPGs, but what they seem to be interested in most is 4e. I showed them Genre Diversion, Roma Imperious, Traveller, 4e, and Mutants and Masterminds, and they want to play 4e They seem to get the game play more easily (or maybe just like the similarities that Cylon has referenced). In the end WotC is a company, and they are interested in making money, so they try to give their largest customer base (or what they hope will be) more of what it wants. Take it for what it's worth. Now my GF likes GenreDiversion (likes it's simplicity) and is interested in the Star Cluster 3 game I'm playing over chat with Clash. Then again, she's older like me

Quote from: Benoist;409342I hate to be the one coming up with the idea out loud but... what if Gamma World was a training grounds for a Fifth Edition of the game the same way Star Wars SAGA was to 4th edition?

Post that at Enworld in the general forum.  I dare you.  I double dog dare you.

Quote from: Peregrin;409394Given the current situation for the last two franchises (and/or their respective publishers), I'll put my money on 5e D&D coming out first.

This is probably a safe bet.

Quote from: Spinachcat;409398I
In Champions, most battles are about your Stun which will regen to full a minute after any battle.  It fits fine for the superhero genre and maybe GW is going for that similar storytelling.

We shall see.

In that context, I could get in to the current GW.

the "strict simulation" version of Gamma World would have to be the Bruce Baugh version.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;409417Post that at Enworld in the general forum.  I dare you.  I double dog dare you.

It will be moved to Meta.