Quote from: Spinachcat;933137Anyone have tricks for that scenario?

(though the 2D20 idea of Terrain as Range Mod does help this nicely)

Not really, which is why WFRP3 failed the first time you ran a "bandits attack the travelers along the Old Forest road" and actually used intelligence instead of all coming from the same direction and distance...or when you wanted to have PCs stand on the overturned Coach and fight the Beastmen who invariably came with a nebulous cloud of minions you had to figure out how to position.

The 2d20 range zone idiocy works ok for tacking on movement modifiers and is ok for melee, but shits the bed like Linda Blair when someone pulls out a bow and finds out that firing across that 3ft of muddy road tacks on the same penalty as 30yards of clear meadow, because Zones are used to describe too many goddamn things.

There's not a single abstract range system mechanic EVER made that a 4-year old can't completely break in 30 seconds.  That's because such a system is always, without exception, design fuckery with an agenda other than making things work better from the point of view of the character.  Whether it's for boardgame tactics like 3:16 or narrative horseshit like 2d20, it's all Epic Fail.

Note: Using phrases like "From here to the corner" or "just out of bowshot" or "who cares how many miles as the crow flies, it will take you 4 days if you don't want to kill your horses" are not what I'm talking about.  Those are just verbal stand-ins for actual ranges and distances.

A variant I love, but don't often get to use, are big hexes with a single centre dot in them. Big hexes opposed to small ones, because this way I can abstract the stuff which is not important but still have functional (if abstracted), dot-to-dot, squad leader-style line of sight.

I generally just say "he's 30 ft away" or "the orcs are all around the cart, which is 60 ft away". I do tend to use a rough maps though. I think idea about tying a distance to a piece of terrain is a GREAT idea.

In terms of melee positioning - I generally use the "swirling melee" approach - anyone in melee gets cover against shooters, as they maneuver about.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;933013So how do you handle/describe encounter distances without miniatures?

I use a pad of graph paper, draw the map. Add little Xs where the characters and NPCs are and then measure it.

I don't do anything except describe distances and location. Theater of the mind.

Quote from: RPGPundit;934123I don't do anything except describe distances and location. Theater of the mind.

Dito. It can get confusing at times though, that's why I like S&W Whitebox, where you throw a handful of d6s for each HD on the table and that's your opponents right there.

I always do feet/yards.

Surprise round 1d4x10 feet (indoors) or yards (outdoors)
not surprised 3d6x10 feet (indoors or LOS whichever is closer) 3d6x10 yards outdoors.

Character can walk 30' per round, or can run 150'.   ...archery distance is ranged only for the first round, after that, it is point blank (indoors)

Outdoors, divide the yard by three and divide that again by 30 to determine initial rounds to contact for an unsurprised groups.

So, 150 yards/3 = 5rounds before jogging attackers 150 yards out will reach melee range.

Quote from: RPGPundit;934123I don't do anything except describe distances and location. Theater of the mind.

As time goes on it becomes ever more distressingly clear to me that Pundy and I have similar approaches to GMing.

Or I use phrases like "you figure they'll have time for at least a couple of shots while you're out of cover getting to the car" which as CRKrueger rightly says is a verbal stand-in but which works better for me than saying 20' or whatever.

Quote from: Skarg;933061I use cardboard counters. :cool:

One of my coaches in the 9th grade gave me his old dry erase board he used to diagram plays with. I've used them ever since -especially when I don't have room for a battlemat. I can do Xs and Os just like John Madden -BOOM! WHAP!

Quote from: Elfdart;936010One of my coaches in the 9th grade gave me his old dry erase board he used to diagram plays with. I've used them ever since -especially when I don't have room for a battlemat. I can do Xs and Os just like John Madden -BOOM! WHAP!

Yep. Pencil & paper works well too. I used to play games (that I mostly invented) on (usually graph) paper with pencils all the time.

Quote from: Elfdart;936010One of my coaches in the 9th grade gave me his old dry erase board he used to diagram plays with. I've used them ever since -especially when I don't have room for a battlemat. I can do Xs and Os just like John Madden -BOOM! WHAP!

I bought clear page inserts from Staples and sometimes I do that by slipping in a piece of graph paper, a map or a hex grid. Though I often draw the maps myself or print them off before hand. When I run a campaign, I will often buy one of those big Zwipes binders and put all my campaign notes in it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;934123I don't do anything except describe distances and location. Theater of the mind.

Same here. If a player wants me to draw a rough map, I'll do it in a pinch. Or if I'm describing an area with specific features, I might scribble a rough outline so people can get an idea of what the tactical realities are.

I haven't used a battlemap in a long time.

Quote from: tenbones;936123I haven't used a battlemap in a long time.

I never used one.

Varies by game for me. For games that "require" grids/minis but I don't happen to be using them, I handwave it by what sounds right, usually in favor of competent PCs.

But with heavy tactical games, I like to bust out the Dwarven Forge or other terrain.