Pretty much what the thread title says.

Phoenix Command?


heh.

I always found the firefights in D6 Star Wars worked pretty well with the multiple actions.

really depends on what you want.  How much detail do you prefer?  One of the problems with ttrpgs is that to capture the ballistics accurately, you get too many factors that slows the game down a ton.  So I guess my question to you, is what level of detail do you prefer?

Yeah what Sac said. It depends on what you consider best, if you mean realism Phoenix Command takes that cake, if you want playable realism CP2020 isn't too bad, GURPs kinda falls between the two, and I'd probably avoid anything from WW completely.

Cyberpunk (1E/2015 or whatever) its Friday Night Firefight was very very good.

My favorite's GURPS.  CP2020 was always fun, too.

I always liked 2nd ed Twilight 2000 with its recoil rules and buckets of d6s for full auto fire. Rolling 15d6 with each '6' a hit (remove dice at longer ranges) really feels like 'spray & pray'

Quote from: Sacrosanct;724040really depends on what you want.  How much detail do you prefer?  One of the problems with ttrpgs is that to capture the ballistics accurately, you get too many factors that slows the game down a ton.  So I guess my question to you, is what level of detail do you prefer?

How about: Abstract enough to move quickly at the table for the benefit of newbies while just barely realistic enough that most reasonable gun-people and action movie aficionados won't feel uncomfortable hand waving it.

EDIT NOTE: Actually, I sort of want to see the differing opinions on gun combat here play out to their fullest, so I don't want anyone to feel like they can't argue in favor of their favorite complex system if they truly feel that it does gun combat best.

I've seen a very wide range of abstractions provide exciting and real-feeling combat scenes, all differently and all with a different "tone" in the results. I'm not sure this is answerable as-is.

Quote from: Brad J. Murray;724059I've seen a very wide range of abstractions provide exciting and real-feeling combat scenes, all differently and all with a different "tone" in the results. I'm not sure this is answerable as-is.

Well, OK, as a frame of reference consider this old thread on WotC's boards about d20 Modern: http://community.wizards.com/forum/non-dd-tsr-and-wotc-rpg-discussion/threads/2234471 (the gun stuff starts a little later in the thread but then takes over the conversation)

Long story short, d20 modern gun combat is riddled with apparently unanticipated problems that make it both unrealistic and broken. This has made me curious about what it takes to simulate/approximate gun combat in a tabletop rpgs appropriately.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;724058How about: Abstract enough to move quickly at the table for the benefit of newbies while just barely realistic enough that most reasonable gun-people and action movie aficionados won't feel uncomfortable hand waving it.

For me, from what I have seen, I liked Classic Traveller the best, it is rather elegant in being quick and deadly, though for some people I know it falls too close to being too abstract and too deadly. But basically it is a (2d6) to hit with mods, then straight weapon damage. It is also adapted into a board game with Snapshot, which is not so bad. Neither satisfy the crunch fiends though.

What I like about CP2020 is the way it recognises and incorporates the fact that even minor non fatal wounds can send people into shock.

Traveller is one of my favourites because of the First Blood rule -- damage comes off your physics stats one die at a time, but the first time you're hit it all comes off one stat. This is lethal and subsumes reduced effectiveness in damage in one simple, elegant fashion. Unfortunately it involves a lot of tables, and I think dropping some of the detail would make it more fun for more people, but hell tables are fun too.

Hârnmaster works great too, just have firearms to puncture or (maybe oddly) blunt damage.

Thinking about all the games that in my experience do this well, the success or failure really lies in the way injury is handled and not in the way firearms are specifically modelled (d20 Modern suffers because of hit points, mostly, and not the way firearms are handled -- all injury feels false). I've seen superb models that bored me to tears in play (Aftermath, anyone?) but then being "in the machine" working the levers of the simulation's detail can also be a lot of fun.

Well, there's Phoenix Command of course, but there's also R Talsorian's Edge of the Sword.

Personally Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes is the best.  It's hard to hit, but most of the time a single shot will put a guy down, on the other hand, even with things like 12d6 damage verses 3d6 Con will on rare occasion allow the target to survive.