When D&Dn first was announced I felt hopeful, when the first playtest docs came out I felt really hopeful.

Of course the usual suspects had an epic level pout that everyone didn't get a pony all the time.

This was a positive sign.

But now it seems WOTC is listening and is frantically shoveling ponies back in.

When I read the blogs it seems that the concerns of the designers are the concerns of the 4vengers.

And even if they solve the "problems" differently it's STILL a misunderstanding of what makes RPGs fun.

Fun-uber alles, balance Über alles, "designer" uber alles, and above all everyone, EVERYONE, must be given a pony at every single moment of game play or the game has failed.

So now I'm not hopeful. I looks like we're in for another varent of what has always made WOTC D&D shitty

Having been in on the playtest from day 1, I can tell you that (as an angry AD&D fan) I was guardedly hopeful.  Then guardedly hopeful became frustrated, but then interested again, but now all interest has flattened out to a "meh,"

I'm more interested in WotC's reprinting of older material now than I am with 5e.

However, that they threw out so much of 4e, and it enraged the 4vengers so much (and it did) - that was a worthy achievement.

I still don't see why I would ever play it over AD&D2e, although working expertise dice into it might be interesting once Wizards decide what they want it to be.

Next really delivers when it comes to extracting butthurt from 4vengers, though. The recent Monk alignment debacle alone was some prime entertainment.

Quote from: vytzka;600891Next really delivers when it comes to extracting butthurt from 4vengers, though. The recent Monk alignment debacle alone was some prime entertainment.

I haven't been paying attention; what was this particular meltdown?

My opinions mirrors thedungeondelvers. It was excited about the first round of playtest especially with the flattened power curve but since then I been meh about it.

What I am most interested in is seeing what type of permissive license they come up with, if any. If it is a good license and the system roughly remains where it is today then it should be easy to support D&D Next alongside my OSR publishing efforts.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;600893I haven't been paying attention; what was this particular meltdown?

OMG ALIGNMENT CLASS RESTRICTIONS IN THIS DAY AND AGE

(for the record I agree that alignment restrictions are dumb but since ignoring it takes literally no effort whatsoever it's, well, dumb people being dumb in entertaining ways)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;600893I haven't been paying attention; what was this particular meltdown?

People at TBP saying how they are "screwed" because monks have to be lawful.  A whole lot of piss and moan about alignment restrictions.  Apparently the suggestion of, "If your table doesn't want to have all monks lawful, then don't use it." is too much work and effort.  Some folks said, "but if it's hard coded, then the DM will force me to use it."

Of course, I don't need to tell anyone here that that's a DM problem, and not a rules problem.  If your DM is doing things you don't like, get another DM.  How hard is that?  It just reinforces my belief that too many people need every little detail spelled out for them or they have a meltdown when a gray area or a potential house rule comes up.


As for the main topic, I'm still hopeful.  I'm a bit disappointed that all martial classes are getting expertise dice, but oh well.  That announcement of course led to cries of "Now casters are screwed unless they get them too!"

Maybe instead of knee-jerking, they actually play a few sessions first in various scenarios to see if that's truly the case.

Quote from: vytzka;600891I still don't see why I would ever play it over AD&D2e, although working expertise dice into it might be interesting once Wizards decide what they want it to be.

Next really delivers when it comes to extracting butthurt from 4vengers, though. The recent Monk alignment debacle alone was some prime entertainment.

This is probably what is bugging me.

5E is not screaming out to me as 'You need me!'

Quote from: vytzka;600891I still don't see why I would ever play it over AD&D2e, although working expertise dice into it might be interesting once Wizards decide what they want it to be.

For me, the thing is how backgrounds and specialties are worked into it.  2e kits were too 'meh' for me, and really didn't do much from a mechanic standpoint.  With Next, I can create my fighter class, thief background, lurker specialty to create my halfling assassin without needing to multi-class like I would in 2e.

Honestly, I haven't looked at it in at least a month. I have no idea what the "current" version is. I'm still hoping it will be awesome when published.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;600899For me, the thing is how backgrounds and specialties are worked into it.  2e kits were too 'meh' for me, and really didn't do much from a mechanic standpoint.  With Next, I can create my fighter class, thief background, lurker specialty to create my halfling assassin without needing to multi-class like I would in 2e.

I wish dnd would get away from 'trees' and 'limitations'


What I mean is if I want a warrior mage that can use spells and whirlwind attack with his staff...let me.

Let me wear armor and cast spells...some small penalty is fine, but none of that..'can't do it' crap.

Whirlwind attack at level 1 without spending 6 feats is fine. Maybe it has a hit penalty....but let me freakin' do it.

If I want a feat, don't make me take other feats first that don't fit my character. Balance the feats better and prereqs are not needed.
 
I must be in a ranty mood. Bah!

I know this is just my personal preference, but I'm big on character archetypes and flavor.  As much as I love AD&D's mechanics and atmosphere, if you showed up as a halfling in leather armor, everyone knew what you were, and knew exactly what abilities you had.  I like how Next breaks this up.  No longer can you assume that the fighter will be in plate mail, shield, and long sword.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;600912I know this is just my personal preference, but I'm big on character archetypes and flavor.  As much as I love AD&D's mechanics and atmosphere, if you showed up as a halfling in leather armor, everyone knew what you were, and knew exactly what abilities you had.  I like how Next breaks this up.  No longer can you assume that the fighter will be in plate mail, shield, and long sword.

I like that. Makes more interesting characters.

My current take:

Captain, the give-a-fuck-ometer is bottoming out!!  

Meh.

Quote from: vytzka;600891I still don't see why I would ever play it over AD&D2e, although working expertise dice into it might be interesting once Wizards decide what they want it to be.

I accept it as being at least possible that it might create a streamlined and useful system.  The open playtest is the worst sign, though, as it means the game will be driven by the preferences of the current fanbase rather than letting the designers target the general public.  D&D's major strength is the brand, and a simpler version of the system would be a massive plus to actually trying to grow the hobby.