Quote from: Bill;708005You mean like the 700 year old Lich Arch mage that stands in a big room with no plan, no preparation, and no minions?

Then the dm whines that the Lich was no challenge?

I have had whiney players though.

I once had a litch and as the PCs were workign their way towards his through his 'gards and wards' spell as well as various undead minions he prepped Project Image and Wizard eye.

Then the party turned up and the Cleric was trying to turn him, which he ignored, being a projected image then he started releasing all the prepped spells he had lined up.
The cleric threw their Hammer of thunderbolts which passed through the projected image etc and they still didn't get it.
When the ghosts (Improved Illusions) started attacking and were ignoring the protection from evil 10' radius they still didn't get it.
Was only when their wizard cast a dispel magic and the projected image vanished that they actually realised something was amiss.

To be fair it wasn't my usual group it was a game club where I invited the players to create a PC using 1,000,000 experience points (using it as a budget for XP and equipment) and I would put them through a High level challenge game. They really expected to walk into a lich's castle and just find him in his tomb reading a novel or something.

When they actually found the Lich by the way he was easy meat armed just with a wand of lightning as most of his spells had been used up. However 3 of the party of 6 were dead and the rest were pretty screwed and he still look out the wizard before he popped his clogs.

Quote from: jibbajibba;708234I have had whiney players though.

I once had a litch and as the PCs were workign their way towards his through his 'gards and wards' spell as well as various undead minions he prepped Project Image and Wizard eye.

Then the party turned up and the Cleric was trying to turn him, which he ignored, being a projected image then he started releasing all the prepped spells he had lined up.
The cleric threw their Hammer of thunderbolts which passed through the projected image etc and they still didn't get it.
When the ghosts (Improved Illusions) started attacking and were ignoring the protection from evil 10' radius they still didn't get it.
Was only when their wizard cast a dispel magic and the projected image vanished that they actually realised something was amiss.

To be fair it wasn't my usual group it was a game club where I invited the players to create a PC using 1,000,000 experience points (using it as a budget for XP and equipment) and I would put them through a High level challenge game. They really expected to walk into a lich's castle and just find him in his tomb reading a novel or something.

When they actually found the Lich by the way he was easy meat armed just with a wand of lightning as most of his spells had been used up. However 3 of the party of 6 were dead and the rest were pretty screwed and he still look out the wizard before he popped his clogs.

I have always thought a Lich would be essentially unbeatable. A Lich would probably defeat you at least three times before you even found him.

Minions, agents, thralls, etc...Could easily be a match for a band of heroes.

Illusions. potentially game over right there. "Oh? the Lich you just cut down was really your own King?"

Simulacrums, fake Lich decoy's, etc...

Deadly lairs, and the lich is not even there when his traps murder you.

Lich is smart and has had centuries to plan. "Gee...too bad everyone in the pc's home kingdom has been drinking the liches domination potions in the water supply for three hundred years"

And everything else I have not thought of.


Good luck defeating a Lich.

Quote from: Bill;708272I have always thought a Lich would be essentially unbeatable. A Lich would probably defeat you at least three times before you even found him.

Minions, agents, thralls, etc...Could easily be a match for a band of heroes.

Illusions. potentially game over right there. "Oh? the Lich you just cut down was really your own King?"

Simulacrums, fake Lich decoy's, etc...

Deadly lairs, and the lich is not even there when his traps murder you.

Lich is smart and has had centuries to plan. "Gee...too bad everyone in the pc's home kingdom has been drinking the liches domination potions in the water supply for three hundred years"

And everything else I have not thought of.


Good luck defeating a Lich.

I imagine they do this for the first century or two, but eventually get bored of constantly weeding the garden of high-level adventurers. The smart options are really to go hide somewhere with an illusion spell or something and not rock the boat, kill everyone to resolve the pest problem permanently, or sub-contract to someone who can be bothered and just step in if strictly necessary. The magical research isn't going to do itself you know.

Like elves, liches can out(un)live annoyingly high level adventurers. Ahh, the advantages of extra time...

Lich defeats human uber pc's by doing nothing.

Wait 100 years. Laugh at their funerals.

Quote from: Bill;708708Lich defeats human uber pc's by doing nothing.

Wait 100 years. Laugh at their funerals.

Ran a campaign that ended up that way.  Took four generations before the Liche was defeated.
 Fun times.

Quote from: Sommerjon;708803Ran a campaign that ended up that way.  Took four generations before the Liche was defeated.
 Fun times.

It's never too early to bow to you new Lich master.

Aha, found it

Quote from: Sham's Grog N BlogMonster Business

A table for determining the activities and pursuits of your dungeon's monstrous population when the party opens the door to their room.

For Non-Intelligent types roll 1d20.
Roll 1d00 for the Smarter Fellas.

1.Bonkers! Wooo-Weee!
2.Chasing Fireflies for fun
3.Cornering Lunch and will be mad if it gets away
4.Dozing peacefully but half-awake
5.Eating Dinner and hates interruptions
6.Ensnared. Caught fast in a Trap
7.Fighting! One another or some other Monster(s)
8.Ill and in no mood to fight or chase
9.Laying in Wait for intruders
10.Near Death. Pretty low on Hits and knows it
11.Paralyzed by Fae Dust
12.Prowling as stealthily as possible
13.Ready to Pounce on overworlders
14.Recovering from severe mystery meat indigestion
15.Relieving oneself/themselves
16.Resting and not particularly vigilant
17.Snoring loudly
18.Starving and desperate for vittles
19.Unconscious. Out cold and helpless
20.Wounded and pissed off
21.Arguing loudly. Possibly with oneself
22.Boozing it up and somewhat buzzed
23.Bored to tears
24.Bound and gagged
25.Bug-Bitten. Swollen welts, itching, maddened
26.Building a teetering House of Bones
27.Bullying something much smaller for fun
28.Carving a warning into the door
29.Chiseling initials into the wall
30.Cleaning the place. It's a mess!
31.Cleaning Toes and filing nails
32.Competing in a Belching/Farting Contest
33.Concealing some valuables in a hiding place
34.Cooking Meal and creating a stench
35.Counting Coins of silver and gold
36.Crafting a make-shift thingamabob
37.Dancing with glee or in ritual
38.Day Dreaming about the glory days
39.Debating dungeon dweller concerns. Possibly alone
40.Deep in Thought and about to reach a conclusion
41.Delusional. Might think the PC's are pals
42.Digging for already looted booty
43.Drinking socially and looking stylish. Or just alone
44.Drunk as a skunk and barely able to stand
45.Escorting prisoners to the Boss
46.Fetching a geegaw for the Boss
47.Gambling with knuckle-bones for silver and gold
48.Gnawing Bones and quite peckish
49.Guarding something of great import for the Boss
50.Hammering on something stuck shut
51.Humming a cheerful tune
52.Impersonating the Boss
53.In Hiding and fearful of pursuers
54.Infested with Dungeon Rot
55.Interrogating some hapless captives
56.Laughing and carrying-on
57.Licking the wall and floor. It's kinda salty
58.Listening for trespassing delvers
59.Looking for Trouble and happy to find some
60.Lost and more than a little embarrassed about it
61.Making something special for the Boss
62.Making Cave Drawings that are somewhat saucy
63.Meditating and contemplating the why of it all
64.Merry Making in potentially lewd and crude fashion
65.Mocking a comrade caught in a trap. Might be dead
66.Picking Nose and that's all
67.Play Acting out the parts of silly overworlders
68.Playing a Game of Eye Gouge Ewe Gouge
69.Plotting the overthrow of the Boss's regime
70.Plucking Eye Brows for one another. Or alone
71.Practicing throwing weapons at almost dead target
72.Praying for a darker, damper future for all dwellers
73.Preparing for Battle and surprised it found them
74.Preparing Meal and making a bloody mess
75.Ransacking the place looking for keys
76.Reading Dwellers Digest. Or looking at the pictures
77.Removing Ear Wax with great care
78.Repairing a malfunctioning trap
79.Replacing a splintered door
80.Rescuing a pal from a pit
81.Rough Housing and making a ruckus
82.Scraping metal on stone and piercing ears
83.Searching for that certain something
84.Setting Trap and just asking to be pushed into it
85.Shaking Down some innocent dwellers for gold
86.Sharpening weapons and/or claws
87.Singing a doleful tune in unison or solo
88.Slimed and very upset. Trying to rinse it off
89.Straightening the old homestead up for visitors
90.Talking about dweller woes, quite possibly alone
91.Telling Tall Tales of delver decimation and defeat
92.Throwing rocks. It's beats Nose-Picking
93.Torturing for the heck of it. Maybe for the Boss
94.Tossing severed heads to one another or in the air
95.Trimming Nose Hairs is routine for the discerning
96.Waiting for some moron to open that door
97.Watching fungus grow
98.Weeping for no apparent reason
99.Whistling and making weird bug noises
100.Writing Graffiti slamming the Boss's reputation

That's a fairly useful table!

Quote from: Bill;708272I have always thought a Lich would be essentially unbeatable. A Lich would probably defeat you at least three times before you even found him.

Minions, agents, thralls, etc...Could easily be a match for a band of heroes.

Illusions. potentially game over right there. "Oh? the Lich you just cut down was really your own King?"

Simulacrums, fake Lich decoy's, etc...

Deadly lairs, and the lich is not even there when his traps murder you.

Lich is smart and has had centuries to plan. "Gee...too bad everyone in the pc's home kingdom has been drinking the liches domination potions in the water supply for three hundred years"

And everything else I have not thought of.


Good luck defeating a Lich.

in a campaign I agree. As I said this was a 6 hour single one off so it starts with them having found the lich's lair circumventing what would have been his political defences.