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What's the most important part of older editions that 3e/4e missed out on?

Started by Archangel Fascist, September 30, 2013, 04:15:23 PM

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deadDMwalking

#15
September 30, 2013, 05:44:50 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;695478What's the most important part of older editions that 3e/4e missed out on?

Illustrated naked-lady monsters in the Monster manual.  

I can forgive everything else.
When I say objectively, I mean \'subjectively\'.  When I say literally, I mean \'figuratively\'.  
And when I say that you are a horse\'s ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse\'s ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Sacrosanct

#16
September 30, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;695501It's all about the min/max-ing, and never about the journey.

This sums up what I was getting at very well.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;695503I suspect the poster is well aware of this.

Oh, I'm sure he was well aware of what he was doing.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Gronan of Simmerya

#17
September 30, 2013, 06:07:38 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;695507Illustrated naked-lady monsters in the Monster manual.  

I can forgive everything else.

:D

Also, I really, really hate the term 'neckbeard.'  Hate as in "punch the speaker in the balls so hard his eyes squirt blood."
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Brad

#18
September 30, 2013, 06:22:19 PM
I gotta go with "negative rights", to appropriate a term.

Basically, in old D&D you were told your character HAD THESE ATTRIBUTES, and everything else was dependent upon you to figure out. Newer D&D is "your character can only do this stuff", which is extremely limiting.

Well, limiting is probably a red herring...you can certainly play 3.X like old D&D but I've yet to run into a group that does so. Seems like players are more interested in defining their characters via the available rules than just doing stuff. That might have nothing to do with the rules and just be the current mindset.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

jeff37923

#19
September 30, 2013, 06:48:12 PM
That you didn't need to have a rule, or class, or spell, or skill for every occassion. That you can houserule what you don't have RAW. That once you purchase the game, it is yours to do with as you see fit.
"Meh."

crkrueger

#20
September 30, 2013, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: gamerGoyf;695482Neither edition has domain management rules, which have historicly been an important part of D&D. There wasn't much that was "lost" from the game in the transition from 2e to 3e. 3e to 4e is a different beast entirely of course but those issues are well known.

That aside, do you have any idea the shitstorm that you've set in motion, there's basically no way a thread like this here isn't going to devolve into team neckbeard spouting bile and circlejerking.

Of course the bile spouting, as always, begins with the 3tards.  :D

One of the main things that was lost was nearly every single restriction placed on spellcasters to allow BMXvAngel which was created by 3e, despite the metric tons of forum horseshit dedicated to try and convince people otherwise.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Simlasa

#21
September 30, 2013, 06:54:56 PM Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 06:59:09 PM by Simlasa
I think 'pacing' covers most of my complaints... with rules bloat to blame for most of that loss. Obsessing over PC 'builds' and progression, combat that drags on but never feels dangerous, feats that confuse more than they enable.  

My 3.5 character sheet is 5 fucking pages.

Quote from: Brad;695519Seems like players are more interested in defining their characters via the available rules than just doing stuff. That might have nothing to do with the rules and just be the current mindset.
I think that's a big chunk of it as well... certainly amongst the guys I currently play with. Sometimes it seems like they've burned out on the roleplaying and are only engaging with the math.

crkrueger

#22
September 30, 2013, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;695503I suspect the poster is well aware of this.

This is the third in a row.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Gronan of Simmerya

#23
September 30, 2013, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;695524BMXvAngel

...whut?
:idunno:
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

S'mon

#24
September 30, 2013, 06:57:36 PM
Recently been looking at using Pathfinder with the Wilderlands of High Fantasy 3.5 version. The main thing missing: Random treasure tables! The Pathfinder Beginner Box brought back great random treasure tables, but they only cover low-level monsters.

Mistwell

#25
September 30, 2013, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: gamerGoyf;695482domain management rules

Quote from: robiswrong;695483The danger of casting spells mid-combat.

Quote from: Phillip;695487Pacing, specifically in regards to the time necessary for resolution of fights.

Quote from: Kiero;695500Henchmen/hirelings.

These all seem like good ones to me.  I'll add:

Morale checks

Emphasis on wandering monsters

TristramEvans

#26
September 30, 2013, 07:10:49 PM
Accessibility -the ability to play w/o knowing the rules and be just as effective by making common sense decisions from the character's POV.

gamerGoyf

#27
September 30, 2013, 07:11:20 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;695524One of the main things that was lost was nearly every single restriction placed on spellcasters to allow BMXvAngel which was created by 3e, despite the metric tons of forum horseshit dedicated to try and convince people otherwise.

Stop being an idiot, you know damn well LWQW was a thing long before 3e. High level Magic-Users we're always supposed to be overly awesome, that was your reward for playing a Magic-User through the low levels where they sucked.

Kiero

#28
September 30, 2013, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;695524One of the main things that was lost was nearly every single restriction placed on spellcasters to allow BMXvAngel which was created by 3e, despite the metric tons of forum horseshit dedicated to try and convince people otherwise.

And then the people who loved the "Batman Wizard" and "CoDzilla" who could do everything better than everyone else on their own bemoaned the fact that 4e put casters back in their box.

Evidently the designers of Next consider those whiners more important than anyone else, thus aren't really doing much to deal with that fundamental flaw in 3.x.
Currently running: Tyche\'s Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

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