Quote from: Omnifray;793023I seem to recall a post in the particular thread where *that* Poison'd game was discussed where the person used words along the lines of cathartic or moving or deep or somesuch. That's obviously a very different thing, more a case of emotional release than self-validation. Of course searching for poignancy could straddle both camps.

I wish I'd saved the link, someone posted it somewhere, that showed some forum (Lumpley? It wasn't RPGnet, and I don't think it was Storygames, but maybe, my memory is fuzzy on this) where a group of Story Swine are actually addressing the "Poison'd" problem, and how they get accused of hypocrisy for condemning Desborough's "frat boy" type of material while being OK with Poison'd's "Let's throat rape the neck of a dead child" sexual brutality.

They were basically arguing that it was OK, because of how self-aware and conscious Vince Baker is. And how it's fine for people to play out brutal rapes in in Poison'd because it's "addressing a theme" and is all about exploring how people do bad things in a really intellectual way.
So, they're allowed to portray brutal sexual violence because they're smart and clever and mature and not childish like Desborough or people who play D&D.

RPGPundit

It isn't often I hear about some corner of the cultural multiverse and think, 'thank god I don't know anything about that!'. This is one of those times. It basically sounds like the 'two girls one cup' of roleplaying games.

In any case, here's something to consider: if you can think of a game and say "this is as opposite to the OSR as can be", that means you have a definition of the OSR, however fuzzy, in your head.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;793245On the contrary, you have to consider how your character's traits relate to the current situation before you can roll the dice. In OSR games I can just keep rolling to attack without any of that, which might not be the best tactic, but it's an option. And since Marvel Heroic Roleplaying can be reduced to a game of Martian Yahtzee in the same way Dungeons & Dragons can be reduced to a Tactical Miniatures game, it's hard to argue one is any more of an RPG than the other.

Well, this is a topic that could probably take up its own thread, but suffice to say, MHR is one of the only games I've read where there's a certain period of time within the game that the gamebook makes the notation: this could be a good time to get some roleplaying in". In other words, the rest of the time its assumed that roleplaying isn't happening. 'Nuff said.

There you go: http://otherworldsrpg.wordpress.com/

Quote from: TristramEvans;794813Well, this is a topic that could probably take up its own thread, but suffice to say, MHR is one of the only games I've read where there's a certain period of time within the game that the gamebook makes the notation: this could be a good time to get some roleplaying in". In other words, the rest of the time its assumed that roleplaying isn't happening. 'Nuff said.

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This is one of those "they used a word in a way I don't like" things again isn't it. I swear, half the internet's opinion on everything is pedantry.

They were in no way meaning that you weren't roleplaying at any other time. They were using that to mean this is a good time to do a lot of in character talking and character growth stuff. IIRC its in the downtime between action scenes part. It was just basically saying, don't gloss this over, its a good time for roleplaying.

Its not saying "I use my solo affiliation, wisecracker distinction, superhuman reflexes, and psych expert to easily dodge my opponents swings while making jokes, inflicting mental damage on them" then saying a few jokes in character as Spiderman while rolling the dice isn't roleplaying. I mean, that is totally in character for Spiderman, and is entirely roleplaying. It may be more mechanical than some people like, but pretending that it isn't roleplaying is silly.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;794965...

This is one of those "they used a word in a way I don't like" things again isn't it. I swear, half the internet's opinion on everything is pedantry.

They were in no way meaning that you weren't roleplaying at any other time. They were using that to mean this is a good time to do a lot of in character talking and character growth stuff. IIRC its in the downtime between action scenes part. It was just basically saying, don't gloss this over, its a good time for roleplaying.

Its not saying "I use my solo affiliation, wisecracker distinction, superhuman reflexes, and psych expert to easily dodge my opponents swings while making jokes, inflicting mental damage on them" then saying a few jokes in character as Spiderman while rolling the dice isn't roleplaying. I mean, that is totally in character for Spiderman, and is entirely roleplaying. It may be more mechanical than some people like, but pretending that it isn't roleplaying is silly.

What they meant is, this is a good time to roleplay the character, because the rest of the time, you're Roleplaying the comic author.

Entire city, Book of Taverns, websites with random Inn generators, cool maps, whatever.  Post your favorite city supplements.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;794965...

This is one of those "they used a word in a way I don't like" things again isn't it. I swear, half the internet's opinion on everything is pedantry.

They were in no way meaning that you weren't roleplaying at any other time. They were using that to mean this is a good time to do a lot of in character talking and character growth stuff. IIRC its in the downtime between action scenes part. It was just basically saying, don't gloss this over, its a good time for roleplaying.

Its not saying "I use my solo affiliation, wisecracker distinction, superhuman reflexes, and psych expert to easily dodge my opponents swings while making jokes, inflicting mental damage on them" then saying a few jokes in character as Spiderman while rolling the dice isn't roleplaying. I mean, that is totally in character for Spiderman, and is entirely roleplaying. It may be more mechanical than some people like, but pretending that it isn't roleplaying is silly.

If you want to discuss this in depth then I suggest we take it to another thread, because this is a game that the site does consider a "storygame" which is one of the only rules on this site Ive seen anyone banned for. That's also why I did not go into a detailed analysis, but suffice to say, no, that sentance by itself wasnt damning but in the context of the rest of the rules and my experience as a player and GM it was. Thats all I have to say on the matter here.

Just to note: people don't get banned for talking about storygames on this site.  They can, however, get banned for intentionally bringing in talk about storygames into unrelated threads, or starting threads about storygames in the RPG forum rather than the other-games forum.

Quote from: RPGPundit;795454Just to note: people don't get banned for talking about storygames on this site.  They can, however, get banned for intentionally bringing in talk about storygames into unrelated threads, or starting threads about storygames in the RPG forum rather than the other-games forum.

Could you define that a bit more? As in, what you are calling a story game and possibly why that's not a role playing game?

Quote from: Certified;795573Could you define that a bit more? As in, what you are calling a story game and possibly why that's not a role playing game?

Welcome to the board

Edit: I recommend searching Pundit's blog for that answer, he's offered his views a few times, but I wouuldnt expect an exact/consistent answer nor a list of games. And also be aware that in the past Pundit has declared games he's never read storygames based on associations with the author. Add on top of that that many of the posters here have thier own varying definitions of storygames, and the term is used indiscriminantly by publishers, and its a tricky subject. I also recommend finding a larger thread from a year or two back about Dungeonworld that really plumbs the depths of what makes a game a storygame or not in Pundit's view.

As for myself, I can offer this definition which remains the only viable one from my PoV: a roleplaying game is a game where role-playing a character from a first-person PoV is the primary goal. A Storygame is a game whose mechanics enforce a 3rd-person PoV and  directly conflict with maintaining a first person PoV, usually because the game places greater importance on "jointly creating a story" over "roleplaying a character"

Quote from: Certified;795573Could you define that a bit more? As in, what you are calling a story game and possibly why that's not a role playing game?

Play D&D, RuneQuest, CoC. Then play Fiasco. The differences should be obvious.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;795610Play D&D, RuneQuest, CoC. Then play Fiasco. The differences should be obvious.

They clearly are, but are you saying that you don't role-play in Fiasco?

Quote from: Certified;795620They clearly are, but are you saying that you don't role-play in Fiasco?

At some point consensus has decided that games like D&D are ought to be called roleplaying games. We had the terminus Adventure Game floating around in the 70s and 80s and while I actually prefer it to 'RPG', I can concede, that for sake of clarity, games that use the model of D&D are roleplaying games -- even though the game understood itself as "Fantastic Medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil".
You roleplay in Cops & Robbers and it technically is a roleplaying game in that respect, but nobody would call it that.

What makes a storygame, well, a storygame, is the idea, that you get together to tell a story in collaboration. D&D has nothing to do with that. It is clear though, that many designers of Storygames have been heavily influenced by RPGs, but wanted games where you can tell a story. Or look at it that way: there wouldn't be a movement of storygame authors if there wasn't the need to do something new or differently. And they did and make no bones about it being different.

Personally, I would even take offence with the term "game" in regards to Fiasco. Even though I had fun making up stuff on the fly, I could've done so without Fiasco.