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What's Really Important to Have in a Medieval Authentic RPG?

Started by RPGPundit, March 03, 2017, 07:00:56 PM

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JamesV

I think that illness could be quite cool, especially if it was tied to the medieval concept of the humours. A poster here mentioned it in a different thread, and it's brilliant.

Might even be the basis for an interesting saving throw system.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

Voros

Pundit asks for what people want to see in a game and gets essays on medieval minutiae.

JamesV

Quote from: Voros;949242Pundit asks for what people want to see in a game and gets essays on medieval minutiae.

Authenticity lies in the details.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

Voros

The right details. Your idea about humours is authentic but more importantly sparks the imagination. Beyond illness, a mechanic rarely loved by players, humours could play an interesting role in the magic system and even character creation.

Banal historical details that impede play has already dragged down many a previous heartbreaker.

Skarg

Quote from: Christopher Brady;949144Wow.  Arrested and killed for carrying a sword, the fact that travel was very dangerous without the presence of monsters, wanting of diseases and starvation...

Oh yes, this is going to be very game-able.

Well, apart from PCs likely dying of plague, what you wrote also describes many homebrew fantasy RPG campaigns I've played in and run, including the first one a pal of mine invented and ran when he was about 15. They were generally very game-able - the gameplay just includes such things as avoiding whatever authorities don't want you to carry weapons around (or actually going along with local customs), learning how to not get lost (or cope) and deal with terrain and weather, and managing for food and encumbrance. All things I still think of as interesting and fun parts of playing a FRPG. Note that it's rarely that ALL of those things are problems all the time, but that there are interesting different laws and situations to discover and play with.

The "arrested & killed for carrying a sword" part seems a bit off for most places, though. Seems more just like an issue of knowing and complying with local weapon etiquette. Kind of like how in most places today, conspicuously carrying a ready gun around in many places tends to mean either you're security, law enforcement, military, hunting, or going to get some attention. If you're a noble, knight or lord's man, that is medieval military/law enforcement/security, so you can carry a sword just fine. There are probably many other contexts where others can be armed without drawing particular attention or curiosity, as long as they fit the known existing types of people and business. But the known businesses also include robber, raider, and agent of a rival lord, so heavily-armed people who don't want to explain themselves might justly be suspected of such. But there's rarely anything like police to arrest such a person. Mostly being well-armed will mean few will even think about messing with you because you probably are a knight and if they're below you, their life as they know it will be over if they mess with you even if they somehow manage to take you out. . . . And on and on, or maybe not - in some places maybe you would be killed for having a sword regardless.

But whatever. As I wrote before, I think it's a mistake in most cases to assert "in medieval times, it was like X" because really there were many interesting variations by time and place, with their own interesting details. So what I'd want in a medieval book is a variety of explanations of how things could and did work in some places, and many interesting alternatives which could also be the case in other places, and some idea why or mainly how that worked, so I can pick and choose and riff on those for my own settings.

I think the main thing is that all such things can (and I think should) have logical reasons for them, and probably the one main thing I enjoy about FRPG's is having settings where there are interesting situations to discover and interact with that make some kind of sense. But it's not to win some sort of "i'm right about X being true in the past", but because it is fun and interesting to have a bunch of interesting different places where things work differently to explore and deal with.

jahud

Quote from: soltakss;949223Look, I am not saying that everyone travelled, far from it, most serfs were tied to the land and were not allowed to travel. However, travel was not such a rare or uncommon occurrence.

Yes, I agree. All I said was roads were bad and travelling was dangerous, not that it was rare. I guess I should have said "relatively bad" and "relatively dangerous". Like the monetary economy, it tended to involve relatively few in that 90% of the population working the fields.

In broad terms, I think medieval kingdoms were relatively unstable and rulers had problems imposing their will, partly, if you like, due to geographical friction. The colored political map is not the whole truth. The Norman landowning was fragmented to prevent the emergence of major landowners. Why? I believe the last Angevin king, John, had to fight (like many kings after him) major landowners despite signing Magna Charta after a rebellion.

As it was suggested, Medieval Europe was 1000 years of regional variety in an area of millions of square kilometres, so any generalization is bound to fall short.
"You are sleeping. You do not want to believe. You are sleeping. You do not want to believe. "

crkrueger

Quote from: jahud;949258As it was suggested, Medieval Europe was 1000 years of regional variety in an area of 1000 km by 1000 km, so any generalization is bound to fall short.

True, but it's easy to extend that thinking and then fall victim to the fallacy that exceptional or edge cases disprove general trends.

Then we get:

Bernicia in Northumbria under Edward IV's Second Reign: a Medieval Authentic RPG.
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Tristram Evans

Quote from: Voros;949242Pundit asks for what people want to see in a game and gets essays on medieval minutiae.

Yes, so? After a certain point of experience and scholarship, that is what some gamers want.

Tristram Evans

Quote from: Voros;949245Banal historical details on the other hand that impede play has already dragged down many a previous heartbreaker.

Which ones?

Gronan of Simmerya

Quote from: Tristram Evans;949289Which ones?

You're talking to mister "too cool for you geeks," so don't expect a coherent answer.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Voros

Chivalry and Sorcery most famously. Some still advocate raiding it for flavour details but few defend its absurdly convoluted 'realistic' mechanics.  

I believe someone else already mentioned C&S in this very thread. The question is what will Pundit bring to the table that C&S hasn't already?

I would suggest the best answer is a more stream lined implementation, imaginative details built off of historical fact and a more evocative magic system.

Voros

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;949292You're talking to mister "too cool for you geeks," so don't expect a coherent answer.

Ha, guess my response elsewhere on 'geek culture' hurt someones feelings. Sorry if I insulted your imaginary tribe.

Opaopajr

Y'know, it's been awhile since AD&D's Historical Reference green books (Vikings, Celts, Charlemagne, Rome, Crusades) so this sounds like a great idea to fill up a low-no magic historical niche.

I'd personally like to see different feudal systems, ideally different cultural ones, so something like the Fez & Marrakesh, Gao, Mali, Ile Ife, Byzantine, Sassanid, Samarkand, etc.

But first!, tackle the fun of rival Italian city states & their crazy, perpetual feudal fighting! That'd be a gas! You could even help port over adventures like Romeo & Juliet, or Divine Comedy, as it'll help explain the feudal mindset and the preeminence of dynastic & ecclesiastic thinking.

Once you start to play games cast in feudal attitudes (Crusader Kings, Cosmology of Kyoto) suddenly you begin to see historical events through their "logic of the times." It's really exciting to get into that somewhat alien headspace. Because, in my case, then you return to art, history, & literature of the time with a newfound appreciation for their thinking & humanity.

Do Italian medieval warring city states! Ooh, do the Norman invasion, and subsequent Islamicization, of Sicily, too!
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Christopher Brady

Honestly, other than a tournaments 'team' (a la A Knight's Tale) I can't see how any real tomb raiding can be viable in a 'medieval authentic' setting.  I could be wrong, of course, but nothing I'm reading is helping me see the options.
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Tristram Evans

Quote from: Voros;949295Chivalry and Sorcery most famously.

um...that's not a fantasy heartbreaker.