Latest Bundle of Holding offering is for "What's O.L.D. is N.E.W."
Has anyone tried it? This captures my interest:
Quote from: BoHNot a "universal" system as such, WOIN is designed specifically for medium-low-magic Tolkienesque medieval fantasy, '80s action, and a Trek-ian to Wars-ian range of sf, with rules systems designed to replicate those genres well. Though characters become more competent and skilled over time, they never end up wading through armies of orcs. The system is a bit grittier than that, with combat tending toward tactical skirmishes, magic toward the subtle, and magical items quite uncommon.
But looking at the online SRD, the core mechanic doesn't thrill me. I think it goes like this: you look up your skill on a chart, roll that many D6, sum them, and try to beat a TN. Some questions:
1. The core mechanic seems a lot like WEG d6. What does the system offer that WEG d6 does not?
2. What "rules systems replicate those genres?"
3. What's an example of the subtle magic?
4. Is there any meta-game currency, and how prevalent is it in the game?
5. What do the acronyms stand for? I've heard other places that they stand for nothing. Please tell me that's not true.
Quote from: Aglondir;1030496...
1. The core mechanic seems a lot like WEG d6. What does the system offer that WEG d6 does not?
2. What "rules systems replicate those genres?"
3. What's an example of the subtle magic?
4. Is there any meta-game currency, and how prevalent is it in the game?
5. What do the acronyms stand for? I've heard other places that they stand for nothing. Please tell me that's not true.
1. It's similar, however you roll to beat a specific TN not a range. You determine your dice pools at character creation or advancement (you don't determine them on the fly based on numbers). When you make a check, you add the pools from your Attributes, a Skill, Equipment and modifiers if applicable. There are dice pool limits based on Grade, which is the total number of careers you have taken. It's akin to "level" but not exactly.
2. The default method of setup in NEW (sci-fi), is to have everyone generate 3 characters, and have one as part of the "away" team and one as part of the bridge crew. Everyone gets to participate in say exploration or space battles. There are systems in ship combat where a good hit can cause casualties and PCs can be damaged. Stuff like that. There's fun tables for generating technobabble for science, medicine, etc. Skills are more "free form" so you can have a skill that fits your concept or genre and then use it with an attribute of the GM's choice to do something. instead of skill descriptions there are suggestions on how to adjudicate certain actions like say hacking or repairing, letting the players/GM be creative with skill use.
3. The magic system was inspired and partly based on the d20 Elements of Magic, which is why it is named as such. It is a "verb-noun" system, where you have a skill + secret like evoke (skill) fire (secret) to toss a bolt of fire at someone. You choose the parameters of the spell based on how many magic points you want to invest. You need more magic points to get to the typical high fantasy style spells, so things start out more reasonable, like protecting your camp from wolves, or protecting a small circle from arrows, or sending a message across the battle field. It starts at a more subtle "level" but if you wanted, you could tune it up for high-fantasy (just start at higher grade and increase magic points...).
4. You have a Luck attribute you can spend on actions (depletes the pool for each one you use). Luck dice explode on a 6. You can recover them once in a day with a 5 min rest. I imagine you could easily ditch it if you wanted a grittier game.
5. I don't think they stand for anything actually. I have not seen or read any explanations. :D They are just acronyms for acronyms sake.
I've played the N.E.W version and wouldn't foist the system on my worst enemy (and the club I play at is sponsored by ENWorld).
The name, man. The name.
I peruse the new releases on RPGNow every now and then for that hidden gem--as many do.
The name "O.L.D." came off so silly and pandering that I immediately dismissed it, not having taken a look at the game. And I never will.
Call me shallow if you must.
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;1030525I've played the N.E.W version and wouldn't foist the system on my worst enemy (and the club I play at is sponsored by ENWorld).
What did you not like about it? Sincerely curious as I'm fancying publishing stuff for it...
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1030528...
Call me shallow if you must.
But, what is you just dismissed YOUR GAME. The one you've always been looking for?
Quote from: trechriron;1030589But, what is you just dismissed YOUR GAME. The one you've always been looking for?
Sadly, I'm at the point where I know the
perfect system doesn't exist. ;)
Quote from: trechriron;10305105. I don't think they stand for anything actually. I have not seen or read any explanations. :D They are just acronyms for acronyms sake.
I was afraid of that. Thanks for the post, but I think I'll pass on this one.
The dice pools thing is broken - you''ll see if you play it that at low levels a lot of things have no effect due to the five die limit.
The space combat stuff is broken (as a retired programmer for NASA I know orbital dynamics and N.E.W just doesn't bear any resemblance to how things in space should work).
The most idiotic name for a game ever...but so what?
I wanted to check this out for a while, so nice timing I say.
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;1030727The dice pools thing is broken - you''ll see if you play it that at low levels a lot of things have no effect due to the five die limit.
The space combat stuff is broken (as a retired programmer for NASA I know orbital dynamics and N.E.W just doesn't bear any resemblance to how things in space should work).
1) Five dice gives you an average roll of 15 (ish). so you can hit a Challenging 13 difficulty over 65% of the time. All games have power levels in some capacity. At those lower power levels, characters are not as capable. If you want to play more capable characters starting out, just up the starting Grade... It doesn't work any differently than any other game. It's just more apparent.
2) Many gamers don't care to be NASA specific when playing out space combat. It's boring. That hardly merits a disqualifier in general. Specifically based on your goals, sure.
The point is that will skills etc you can easily have more than five dice available as a starting character but that is of no value and you are exactly the same as someone who hasn't taken stuff that gives them more dice so little differentiation.
Decent space combat is always important to me as it messes with my head when it's blatantly incorrect.
the system is basically the mentally challenged son of WEG's d6 system and Pathfinder. They took all the crunch of Pathfinder and used it to replace most of the fun of the d6 system, and made a game that tries to emulate both badly.
ORIGINALLY the game was supposed to be a lot more cinematic in that the game was to have power levels where at higher power levels you would roll d8s, d10s, d12s or even d20s, depending on your power level, but it was decided (without ever checking with the backers) that this made the game "too swingy" (this was a direct quote from Morris when I asked about it).
If I'd known they were going to make that change in the system, I would not have backed it.
However, they have, as the publication has continued, provided plenty of tools for creating your own various bits, such as races, magic (even if it is hacked from Ars Magica), starships, vehicles, monsters, weapons, equipment, and so on.
They are also going to be releasing a new Judge Dredd game as well as settings based off of many of the other 2000AD settings.
I had a couple ideas for a game using the system, but I've since decided that if I do run any of them, I'd use Stars Without Number instead.
Come on, Trentin, assail these naysayers with the wonders of the system.
Why do you like it so much?
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;1030875The point is that will skills etc you can easily have more than five dice available as a starting character but that is of no value and you are exactly the same as someone who hasn't taken stuff that gives them more dice so little differentiation.
Decent space combat is always important to me as it messes with my head when it's blatantly incorrect.
Dice over your limit (5 in this case) can usually be spent to increase effectiveness. If, for example, you have 7 dice and are only alliwed to keep 5, you could use those 2 leftover to increase damage or activate the special effect of the skill.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1030889Come on, Trentin, assail these naysayers with the wonders of the system.
Why do you like it so much?
I will answer more thoroughly later. But for now, I think it strikes a nice balance between the crunch of GURPS (a game I still love...) and say 5e (a game I don't like so much). The countdown mechanic is brilliant fun. It is somewhat player-centric which jibes with my GMing style. The Health + Conditions system brings solid flavor and verisimilitude without being cheesy (like people popping up and down over a combat...). I really need to do a proper review.
Quote from: Bloodwolf;1030932Dice over your limit (5 in this case) can usually be spent to increase effectiveness. If, for example, you have 7 dice and are only alliwed to keep 5, you could use those 2 leftover to increase damage or activate the special effect of the skill.
Yep. So, similar to GURPS, having a character with a skill of 25 is not as useful as having one with a skill of 20, a technique and then making deceptive attacks or feinting. It is designed to be tactical and give players choices in the moment. I like that kind of combat vs. the boring standard d20 approach.
I thought these bundles were meant to be for well-known products? I've never heard of this thing before.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1031323I thought these bundles were meant to be for well-known products? I've never heard of this thing before.
It's from ENWorld. If I didn't visit there, I probably wouldn't have heard of it, as he pimps it like you do Lion & Dragon/Dark Albion but doesn't get much word elsewhere
When stuff is released for it, it stays on rpgnow and DTRPG lists for a bit before sinking. It's competing well against the 'Fragged' series, which is another RPG that goes for combat tactics instead of narrative rules.
I've got O.L.D, which I'm currently half way though. Its a bit of a slog though as its all rules and no setting (there are a few snippets of fiction), but there is some interesting ideas in there that I would be keen to try out. I've already stolen the countdown mechanic for some of my other games. It seems to be quite tactical, and the design choice seems to favour minis and maps, which is something I don't use too often, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out in the theatre of the mind.
Quote from: JeremyR;1031351It's from ENWorld. If I didn't visit there, I probably wouldn't have heard of it, as he pimps it like you do Lion & Dragon/Dark Albion but doesn't get much word elsewhere
If he pimped it like Lion & Dragon, people would have heard of it elsewhere.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1031989If he pimped it like Lion & Dragon, people would have heard of it elsewhere.
[video=youtube;Ji-cT58rgNc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-cT58rgNc[/youtube]
Hey, a huge part of having a successful game is self-promotion. People who publish a game and then just let it sit there on rpgnow will usually not get great results (unless they're already extremely well-known, and even then they'll do better at it if they promote it).
The only reason I discovered W.O.I.N is because I got curious about the community content program on RPGNow, otherwise I would never have heard of it.
I'm a backer, but never ran or played it. Just didn't get around to it.
I think it's a pretty lame name for an RPG, I have to say.
It certainly doesn't conjure up an image in the mind of what the game is.
Quote from: Winterblight;1032923It certainly doesn't conjure up an image in the mind of what the game is.
Yeah, it's baffling.
Quote from: Winterblight;1032923It certainly doesn't conjure up an image in the mind of what the game is.
Yeah, it sounds like a game about hitting up thrift stores to see who can find the best "treasures."
Quote from: HappyDaze;1033338Yeah, it sounds like a game about hitting up thrift stores to see who can find the best "treasures."
LOL Macklemore, the RPG.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1030748The most idiotic name for a game ever...but so what?
I wanted to check this out for a while, so nice timing I say.
Better hurry, because after today the bundle will be G.O.N.E.
(As said in an email Bundle of Holding sent me. Very witty, that crew!)
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1030593Sadly, I'm at the point where I know the perfect system doesn't exist. ;)
First, the disillusionment. Then, the acceptance. I remember well, joining the fold...:-)
It's true. The perfect system doesn't exist. For me, it's about a) happiness when I GM it and b) can I publish for it without a lot of shenanigans. It was hard for me to find that confluence, but I think WOIN will do it for me. I can tinker, publish my tinkerings, and publish the settings I'm tinkering for. Should be a recipe for happiness.
Quote from: trechriron;1030933I will answer more thoroughly later. But for now, I think it strikes a nice balance between the crunch of GURPS (a game I still love...) and say 5e (a game I don't like so much). The countdown mechanic is brilliant fun. It is somewhat player-centric which jibes with my GMing style. The Health + Conditions system brings solid flavor and verisimilitude without being cheesy (like people popping up and down over a combat...). I really need to do a proper review.
what is this countdown mechanic you speak of?
Quote from: Psikerlord;1033925what is this countdown mechanic you speak of?
http://www.woinrpg.com/countdowns/
You can peruse the game for free in this SRD section.