Forum > Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion
What OSR games don't use D&D as its foundation?
rytrasmi:
To answer your question: None.
I've been around the block on this question and used to hold the opinion that many non-D&D-origin games were OSR.
OSR is most useful as a category if it means general compatibility with early editions of D&D. If I buy two "OSR" games created by different people I should be able to mix and match with little to no conversion.
As for OSR as a philosophy, I think that's less useful. In my view, categories should be utilitarian. If we start imbuing categories with airy fairy ideals as to game design philosophy and play style, then we are getting too vague and the category loses meaning. Besides, any game can be played with or without OSR principles. I could pull out my red box and play it in a very un-OSR way. I could and do play d100 games in an OSR way even when the rules say different. If I call a game "OSR" because of how I run or play it, it's only relevant to me, so it's useless for purposes of communication. Same goes for designer intent.
FingerRod:
--- Quote from: Eric Diaz on June 22, 2022, 12:58:45 PM ---By your definition of OSR (which seems a bit unique), Mythras might be a good bet (or other Runequest derivatives).
Runequest was published in 1978, so it is a good candidate for retrocloning.
EDIT: not that's EASY to define OSR. I once asked in the OSR subreddit and people rolled their eyes... there is no single answer, and some common answers (rulings not rules) seems to exclude AD&D, for example.
--- End quote ---
Complete agreement, there is no single answer. And RQ is a great example.
Complete side note having nothing to do with what you were saying—‘rulings not rules’ on sites like Reddit has become such a tired expression, I almost always ignore whatever vomit salad the person saying it is trying to pass off. We’ve all read Finch’s primer. Either link to it, citation it properly, or better yet—provide real concrete examples from your games. ::)
Jaeger:
--- Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 22, 2022, 12:38:26 PM ---OSR started as D&D early editions. But the thing becomes muddy pretty fast, because DCC isn't D&D but you won't find many who argue it's not OSR. So what is OSR? Take your pick of the ensuing flame war.
Traveller -> Cepheus Engine (has lots of adaptations to not sci-fi genres) For instance.
--- End quote ---
^Yup^...
OSR = Old school Renaissance/Revival whichever one flips your skirt up.
My hot take, you have the OSR and retro-clones. The OSR started out as retro-clones, but nowadays not all retro-clones are OSR...
Like GB said; OSR started out as clones to play early D&D editions that were out of print, based on 3e SRD.
OSR = Generally understood as D&D based games that tend to be broadly compatible due to the commonality of the system mechanics.
But the term retro-clone can apply to OSR and to other games, so maybe we need another category: Old School Gaming?
OSG = System clones of non-D&D based games like traveller or d100 based games; either as straight retro-clones, or doing their own thing with the system.
Yes, D&D based games get their own category - But it started with the 3e OGL, so there.
These would be my general definitions. If you want to argue what the meaning of is is; bugger off, I'm not interested.
Jason Coplen:
Gore by the dude who did Labyrinth Lord. Gore is an RQ clone.
Pat
BANNED:
I think it's less important to have a universal definition of OSR, and more important to explain which definition you're using when there's some ambiguity.
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