There, in solidarity I've changed my avatar to a 'thinker' who I have a STRONG dislike of.

I've always wanted to play Metamorphosis Alpha... not the rules necessarily but the setting, maybe do it as some decaying 'Galt's Gulch' in space.

Since this thread likely has drifted beyond redemption, I may as well emphasize that I don't 'dislike' Rousseau.  I find reading him invariably thought-provoking and teaching him great fun (I teach a course entitled "The Social Contract Tradition & Its Critics" every year; next to Hobbes, Rousseau provokes the most discussion).

I disagree with most of Rousseau's views, but I think that he is a thinker worth taking seriously.  So do important contemporary philosophers like Joshua Cohen (whose book I linked to earlier) and David Gauthier (see this book).  Interestingly, and perhaps somewhat ironically, as a 'libertarian' (not exactly, but close enough) Gauthier's own political views are pretty radically different than those of Rousseau.  

Quote from: Simlasa;401980There, in solidarity I've changed my avatar to a 'thinker' who I have a STRONG dislike of...

Heh.  Now that is a 'thinker' whom I neither like nor find thought-provoking.  

Quote from: Akrasia;402024Heh.  Now that is a 'thinker' whom I neither like nor find thought-provoking.  

Hmm.

Quote from: John RogersThere are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

LOL @ John Rogers' quote.

Quote from: Benoist;402032LOL @ John Rogers' quote.

Ditto.  :rotfl:

(To pile things on more).

I almost ended up changing majors to philosophy, during college.  At the time, I thought engineering and computer courses were kinda boring.

I came to my senses and eventually came to the realization that philosophy was no more insightful than anything else.

Quote from: ggroy;402034(To pile things on more).

I almost ended up changing majors to philosophy, during college.  At the time, I thought engineering and computer courses were kinda boring.

I came to my senses and eventually came to the realization that philosophy was no more insightful than anything else.

And of course, the most pressing existential question that a philosophy degree holder must grapple with on a daily basis is "Would you like fries with that?"

Quote from: StormBringer;402035And of course, the most pressing existential question that a philosophy degree holder must grapple with on a daily basis is "Would you like fries with that?"

Many engineering majors had that same problem too for a long time.  Of the people who majored in engineering around the same time I was taking those engineering courses, very few of them ever worked as an engineer since graduation.  Some of them ended up doing computer programming work for a decade or so, before they were "aged" out.  It gets harder to find work (whether staff or contracts) once one has been "aged" out.

Quote from: ggroy;402034...I came to my senses and eventually came to the realization that philosophy was no more insightful than anything else.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Obviously if you want to learn about physics, taking a physics course is going to be more helpful than taking a course on existentialism.  However, if you want to gain a critical understanding of the assumptions underlying contemporary physics, a philosophy of physics course would be very helpful.

With respect to the kinds of 'insights' that one might gain by learning more about the history of political philosophy, this quote from Keynes comes to mind:

Quote"The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

Now, if you mean simply to dismiss philosophy as a discipline tout court, then obviously I disagree completely with your sentiment.  But I hardly have the time or desire to disabuse you of your mistaken view here.

I have also, following the trend, made my avatar a thinker I disagree strongly with at times.

Quote from: Akrasia;402039I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Obviously if you want to learn about physics, taking a physics course is going to be more helpful than taking a course on existentialism.  However, if you want to gain a critical understanding of the assumptions underlying contemporary physics, a philosophy of physics course would be very helpful.

At the time, I stumbled across Goedel's Theorem.  I was attempting to understand why there exists mathematical statements which cannot be proven in the conventional sense.  The philosophy stuff related to that questions of that sort, wasn't really anymore helpful.  (ie. Popper, Wittgenstein, etc ...).

On my own at the same time, I was attempting to understand quantum mechanics and where stuff like Heinsenberg's matrix mechanics came from.  This turned out to be a complete dead end, independent of philosophy.

Most of the philosophy stuff I found at the time which addressed issues related to the foundations of quantum theory, didn't really examine where it came from.  Most of it just assumed quantum theory, and examined its consequences.

The 1990 tipping point that some were suggesting up thread seems way too late to me. That would make TORG old-school.

For me the big old-school game I like would be the usual obvious choice of D&D, although my preferred editions of it are the non-old school ones (AD&D 2nd and RC D&D).

I'm on the fence about whether Skrealms of Jorune counts as old-school. It feels a bit late to me at 1984. I'm still not sure how much I really like it anyway so it doesn't matter either way.

Some of the other titles I've seen mentioned like Paranoia and MSHRPG I like but don't personally see as old school.

Quote from: Silverlion;401618What old school materials do you like? It can be from the era you consider old-school, or it can be a retro clone. It doesn't have to even be core rules, although that's what I'm most interested in hearing about.
So share!

As far as what is "old school" for this thread please refer to above before we start telling others what is "old school" for this thread.

Quote from: ggroy;402038Many engineering majors had that same problem too for a long time.  Of the people who majored in engineering around the same time I was taking those engineering courses, very few of them ever worked as an engineer since graduation.  Some of them ended up doing computer programming work for a decade or so, before they were "aged" out.  It gets harder to find work (whether staff or contracts) once one has been "aged" out.

True story.  Honestly, these days it seems like a degree of any stripe is worth less and less in the job market.  What used to be something of a guaranteed interview has lately been barely able to get a foot in the door, let alone a call back from potential employers.