Chaosium's OGL seems more than a bit like trying to close the barn door after the cats have already bolted.

This all seems part of an attempt to stave off the retro clones coming in and taking "their" cheese...

Although slower than the OSR/D&D side of the hobby; it is only a matter of time before a proper CoC Clone is done...

CoC is Chaosium's bread and butter. They will be all manner of butthurt, and I expect baseless legal actions to be made...


Chaosium as a company is just converged enough that they are starting to turn off customers with their SJW wankery.

If someone did a straight up "Culthulu Rising" d100 rpg, based on the H.P. Lovecraft works in public domain, with high production values...  

Over time Chaosium could easily find themselves in a 4e/PF1 situation...

There aren't enough publishing labels. They have Jonstown Compendium and Miskatonic Repository, but nothing else.

As a Nephilim fan, I find that unfortunate.

It was only a matter of time, but NuChaosium finally responds to crowd beta testers of the first back-of-bogroll draft of the NOGL:

Quoteif it offends you that this is a different OGL than WotC or is somehow not worth being called an Open License because it is different from how that term is used elsewhere, you can go pound sand. I really don't care.

If you want to sell hamburger, call it hamburger. No-one believes it's steak.

Quote from: NuChaosium...
If somehow it offends you that we aren't letting you make your own retroclone of Call of Cthulhu or RuneQuest, well that was never our intention. And if it offends you that this is a different OGL than WotC or is somehow not worth being called an Open License because it is different from how that term is used elsewhere, you can go pound sand. I really don't care..

I see that they are taking the hearts and minds approach...

They could have went Pinnacle's approach with Savage Worlds but as an OGL.

As in, they could have released a generic core rule-book and then say all supplements have to require the core-rulebook.

That way they avoid retroclones but at the same time don't have vague statements that let them shut down any work they don't like (as in not an OGL at all).

Quote from: Jaeger;1125341it is only a matter of time before a proper CoC Clone is done...

I would nominate Sine Nomine's SILENT LEGIONS
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions

It's absolutely excellent, and more importantly, it is predominantly a resource book for Lovecraftian occult/horror RPGing regardless of what system you might use.

I always find it amusing that whenever anyone asks who has the rights to what in the Cthulhu Mythos, the answer is always, "Don't ask, it's way too complicated!" Yet, somehow, the implication is that Chaosium knows exactly what is and isn't 'theirs' ...

Quote from: Rhedyn;1125359They could have went Pinnacle's approach with Savage Worlds but as an OGL.

As in, they could have released a generic core rule-book and then say all supplements have to require the core-rulebook.

That way they avoid retroclones but at the same time don't have vague statements that let them shut down any work they don't like (as in not an OGL at all).

There already is a generic BRP rulebook.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/24384

The only problem is that it hasn't been updated since 2007. Call of Cthulhu 7th edition made a lot of revisions to the rules that aren't presented, such as condensing the skill list and percentile characteristics.

BRP became abandonware when the Moon Design overlords took charge. One of the reasons for this fiasco was probably to have something to toss at the complaining fans and say, "Here, you want BRP stuff, you write it. Losers."

Thanks for the explanation, I got it now.
TweakBox word counter Tutuapp

Quote from: Vile;1125364I always find it amusing that whenever anyone asks who has the rights to what in the Cthulhu Mythos, the answer is always, "Don't ask, it's way too complicated!" Yet, somehow, the implication is that Chaosium knows exactly what is and isn't 'theirs' ...

I find NuChaosium and reaction and response to be completely and utterly predictable. They want their cake and eat it too. No one can tell them otherwise. I'm no copywriter lawyer but if HPL works are public domain. They don't suddenly stop being so because NuChaosium and it's hardcore fanbase say it is so. They need to once and for all clarify their issue. Saying it is too complicated is being evasive in the extreme and imo somewhat shady as a company.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1125368There already is a generic BRP rulebook.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/24384

The only problem is that it hasn’t been updated since 2007. Call of Cthulhu 7th edition made a lot of revisions to the rules that aren’t presented, such as condensing the skill list and percentile characteristics.

One would think that Nuchaosium would update the book ASAP given the new edition of CoC and their not very Opengl being worked on.


Is it just me or is it that these older rpg companies really and I mean really do not know how to handle any push back from the fans. If it's not constant praise they get all angry and passive aggressive. Palladium Books, Chasium they have no skills or very little in terms of public relations and only seem to want to deal with sycophants and no one else.

Quote from: sureshot;1125376Is it just me or is it that these older rpg companies really and I mean really do not know how to handle any push back from the fans. If it's not constant praise they get all angry and passive aggressive. Palladium Books, Chasium they have no skills or very little in terms of public relations and only seem to want to deal with sycophants and no one else.

I don't see much difference between them and younger ones, except the older ones have been dealing with it longer.  The stress starts to show same time the old-age filter is wearing thin.  The signs are there earlier, but then a person hides it better.  One difference might be that for the older ones, they are conscious of someone coming along and being the Williams to their Gygax.  The whole Wotc/Paizo OGL thing shows that there is more than one way for that to legally occur, too.

I do think there is a certain element with licensing of you are either in or out.  If you want to have control and not deal with that stuff mostly, then you don't need to flirt with it at all.  That always runs the risk that someone will compete outside the license, but at least they'll have to establish their game first.

Quote from: sureshot;1125376I'm no copywriter lawyer but if HPL works are public domain. They don't suddenly stop being so because NuChaosium and it's hardcore fanbase say it is so. They need to once and for all clarify their issue. Saying it is too complicated is being evasive in the extreme and imo somewhat shady as a company.

If you look at FFG's Arkham games, they are all copyright FFG, there is no mention of HPL or Chaosium and no phrases like "used with permission" or anything. And FFG often uses quotes from HPL novels.

Compare that to FFG's Star Wars game which are straight up copyright of Lucasfilm. Any HLP stuff that shows up in any FFG Arkham product has to be public domain.

Quote from: sureshot;1125376I find NuChaosium and reaction and response to be completely and utterly predictable. They want their cake and eat it too. No one can tell them otherwise. I'm no copywriter lawyer but if HPL works are public domain. They don't suddenly stop being so because NuChaosium and it's hardcore fanbase say it is so. They need to once and for all clarify their issue. Saying it is too complicated is being evasive in the extreme and imo somewhat shady as a company.

Not a lawyer.

There is a mix of information out there about HPL copyrights. For years, Arkham House claimed they had copyright to many of his works. At least some have already gone to public domain simply because of age. Some likely because they didn't ever have their copyright status renewed. I believe much of Chaosium's early claims about copyright were based on their licensing from Arkham House, but there have been some researchers that have stated that Arkham House never had the copyright. It is easiest (and probably best) for Chaosium not to weigh in, because there is much evidence to prove most of HPLs works are now public domain, and that some were public domain even when parties were trying to lay claim to having some rights (or rights by way of sub-licensing). I think in this case, it is simply too complicated for Chaosium to weigh in.

Quote from: Lynn;1125406Not a lawyer.

There is a mix of information out there about HPL copyrights. For years, Arkham House claimed they had copyright to many of his works. At least some have already gone to public domain simply because of age. Some likely because they didn't ever have their copyright status renewed. I believe much of Chaosium's early claims about copyright were based on their licensing from Arkham House, but there have been some researchers that have stated that Arkham House never had the copyright. It is easiest (and probably best) for Chaosium not to weigh in, because there is much evidence to prove most of HPLs works are now public domain, and that some were public domain even when parties were trying to lay claim to having some rights (or rights by way of sub-licensing). I think in this case, it is simply too complicated for Chaosium to weigh in.

Chaosium can still apply trademark law. They could argue that any other tabletop game with "Cthulhu" in the title endangers their trademark.