Quote from: TonyLB;242883Uh ... not really, no:  Games like Shooting the Moon, Breaking the Ice, Under the Bed, Bliss Stage, Contenders and Misery Bubblegum all deal with these same issues of heartbreak and strength, and do so without pushing anyone's panic buttons about inherently squicky material.

I mean, I've noticed that the examples that get bandied about are usually the most patently offensive ones, but I just chalk that up to observer bias.

Of the games you've mentioned, I've only read Breaking The Ice.  And I would strongly object to anyone who called Breaking the Ice a swine game.  It's extremely light-hearted, funny and easy to play.  it doesn't present itself as being daring or original or superior to previous games.  It let's its originality speak for itself.

Breaking the Ice isn't about misery tourism, and it isn't about pretentious hyperbole covering for incomplete, partial rules.  Sure, it's not typical gamer fare, and you're average gaming group can't get anything out it.  But unlike D&D, I can actually see how BTI could get you laid.  And that's impressive.

BTI is a prime example of why it's important to recognize the difference between a Forge game and a swinish game.  Just because Emily Care Boss was introduced to the idea that she could design a game by that crowd doesn't mean that her game has been compromised by the more asinine elements of that crowd.

Quote from: Fritzs;242764Or are RPGs different than everything else, that only thing they are allowed to provide is "fun"...?

Of course one has different criteria for different products. Or let me know, next time, you buy fridge to cook your dinner and toaster to clean your room. Also it is interesting how you change the meanings and use such words - allow - to draw other persons with evil intent. I am not supposed to allow or disallow anything. I am talking about how I assess the game quality. Why I choose what I choose. And for me, fun factor is very important. Yes. I believe, that game should serve its buyers...

BTW: I really don't care about your webcomics of about your personal problems, that you sublty present in your post.

Quote from: AlnagAnd for me, fun factor is very important.

Not so much for me... that probalbly make me psychotic motherfucker, who deserve lobotomy, to be put in line with "normal" fun loving people...

Quote from: AlnagI believe, that game should serve its buyers...

And what if buyers (be it minority) want to buy depresive and unfunny game...

BTW:Oh great analysis of my personality... I wanted to draw webcomics year ago, but what I don't get is the part with personal problems, where I was refering to someones previous post, not to myself... perhaps you should read less Freud.

So what motivates someone to want to play a game like this? What is the thought process involved?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242986So what motivates someone to want to play a game like this? What is the thought process involved?

Why would you choose to read a book like Lolita? Why would you choose to watch a film like Wild Strawberries?

What is the thought process involved?

Why not answer the question, if you can. Or not, if you can't. This isn't an answer at all.

Use your imagination. Aren't you a roleplayer?

Quote from: droog;242987Why would you choose to read a book like Lolita? Why would you choose to watch a film like Wild Strawberries?

What is the thought process involved?

And this ladies and gentleman, is why we call them swine.

Notice that we're talking about a handful of vanity press games with less than 5,000 in sales.  But what does droog compare them to?

Lolita, widely recognized as one of the greatest examples of modern literature, and Wild Strawberries, one of Ingmar Bergman's greatest films.  

Nabokov, Bergman, and Vince Baker? Seriously?  Seriously?  What the fuck makes you think any thing the Forge has ever produced comes even remotely close to works by world-renowned writers and directors?

I'll tell you what: you're a pretentious shitweasel.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242986So what motivates someone to want to play a game like this? What is the thought process involved?

The subject matter is interesting. Compelling. It's certainly not a beer & pretzels game, but for some not every game has to be.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Jackalope;242995I'll tell you what: you're a pretentious shitweasel.

Mouthing off again, son.

I chose those examples as examples of dark and controversial subject matter, as it happens. I suppose I should have gone with GI Joe or Star Wars or something.

Quote from: David R;242996The subject matter is interesting. Compelling. It's certainly not a beer & pretzels game, but for some not every game has to be.

Now I know you're a swine!

Quote from: droog;243000Now I know you're a swine!

Only here, comrade. Anywhere else, I'm just a gamer with diverse taste in games.

Regards,
David R

Jackalope: Question is: Do you like Wild Strawberries, because it's great movie or because "they" (teachers, society, whatever) told you to like it...? Or because it is ever popular self-evident fact that don't need explanation...?

I've seen people who were criticising Wild Strawberries as boring movie, filmed by pretentious wank, who wanted to look "intelectual" and "deep"... basicaly, the subjected it to same criticism as you, when you are criticising so called "swine" games...

Yes, my wife doesn't like Bergman at all. Frank Capra's more her style.

Quote from: David R;243001Only here, comrade. Anywhere else, I'm just a gamer with diverse taste in games.

You are the Gadarene Swine. Or is that me?