Quote from: J Arcane;242865I just have no sympathy whatsoever for this stupid middle-class-boredom induced "I cut myself to feel alive" type endless misery porn.  

....

And as has been pointed out time and time and time again every time the latest emo-tourism game comes to fore, the idea that you can gain any kind of insight from such an exercise is utterly contemptible.

Seems like fodder for a separate thread.

Quote from: J Arcane;242865And do you notice how often it's always something patently offensive?

Uh ... not really, no:  Games like Shooting the Moon, Breaking the Ice, Under the Bed, Bliss Stage, Contenders and Misery Bubblegum all deal with these same issues of heartbreak and strength, and do so without pushing anyone's panic buttons about inherently squicky material.

I mean, I've noticed that the examples that get bandied about are usually the most patently offensive ones, but I just chalk that up to observer bias.

Quote from: TonyLB;242883I mean, I've noticed that the examples that get bandied about are usually the most patently offensive ones, but I just chalk that up to observer bias.

Wait a minute. Explain to me why SAJ is 'patently offensive'. Without simply asserting it.

Quote from: droog;242884Wait a minute. Explain to me why SAJ is 'patently offensive'. Without simply asserting it.

>shrug<  I just meant that it's the stuff that people can easily take offense at.  Feel better if I say "obviously controversial"?

Quote from: TonyLB;242885Feel better if I say "obviously controversial"?

No, because I disagree that it's any such thing. I thought the debate was stupid on SG and I think it's stupid here.

Quote from: droog;242887No, because I disagree that it's any such thing. I thought the debate was stupid on SG and I think it's stupid here.

You don't think that a game about slavery is more likely to incite hot feelings than a game about first dates?  Uh ... okay.  Agree to disagree, I suppose.

Quote from: TonyLB;242890You don't think that a game about slavery is more likely to incite hot feelings than a game about first dates?  Uh ... okay.  Agree to disagree, I suppose.

No, Tony. Intelligent people (or people fully using their intelligence) do not look at a 'game about slavery' and go 'OMG that's so offensive!', same as intelligent people don't look at books or films about the same and say the same.

The incitement of hot feelings has everything to do with the Forge connection and nothing to do with the game. Again, I'll point out that nobody except me, David, and possibly you, has actually read it.

Quote from: droog;242892No, Tony. Intelligent people (or people fully using their intelligence) do not look at a 'game about slavery' and go 'OMG that's so offensive!', same as intelligent people don't look at books or films about the same and say the same.

I think highly intelligent people are just as prone to making snap judgments as anyone else.  Maybe more so.

I'm not even trying to make a point about stuff that might or might not be controversial ... I'm making a point about the several heartbreaking games of character suffering that have nothing I could even conceive of as inciting controversy, even to a knee-jerk snap judgment.  Under the Bed is about children's TOYS for pete's sake.  The subject material seems unlikely to offend at a glance.

The argument has been made that all of the character-suffering games are also about controversial (and perhaps even offensive) material.  I've got evidence that I think just shows flat out that isn't so.

Any chance you could redirect your rage about people's treatment of SAJ toward somebody more focussed on that aspect of the discussion?

Quote from: TonyLB;242906Any chance you could redirect your rage about people's treatment of SAJ toward somebody more focussed on that aspect of the discussion?

I'm not angry. But if you say things I disagree with and I have the slightest amount of respect for you, I'll argue.

UtB is about PUTTING CHILDREN IN DANGER. OMG!!!!!!

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;242851Age of Fable's online gamebook is fun. I would enjoy roleplaying in that world, the multiple choice bit just whet my appetite

Thanks!

I actually have plenty of slavery and transexuality in there, if anyone's interested.

Look, I think you're all completely missing the REAL point here, which is...

um...

wait, we're talking about which games are best. There isn't a real point.

Quote from: Age of Fable;242912Thanks!

I actually have plenty of slavery and transexuality in there, if anyone's interested.

Have you given thought to writing it up as a worldbook?

I mean, you wouldn't have to do much new writing, you could just have a skeleton of description of each town, and all those encounters you wrote up could be example/random encounters.

So I have the following definitions:

1) A swine game is a game that Pundit Doesn't like.

2) A swine game is a game that is rules-lite.

3) A swine game is a game that is rules-heavy.

4) A swine game is a game that attempts to be the gaming equivalent to literature.

5) A swine game is a game played by people who want to think they are better than you.

1) is useless.  2) is useless, because I don't think Amber is a bad game.
3) is useless, while Hero System is not my bag, I've had fun with 3.5.
4) is idiotic.  I sometimes learn things watching the History Channel, it is still fun.  I enjoy some literature.  5) is kinda useless.  I've met duchebags like that that only play D&D.

So, "swine game" is a useless term, unless you are playing a pig.

Quote from: NotYourMonkey;242945So, "swine game" is a useless term, unless you are playing a pig.

Have I got the game for you!

the farm

Quote from: himsati;242861Toni Morrison .. Beloved? Figuring that you might be bringing her up in connection to the slavery thing? Otherwise I'm going to play stupid and have zero idea who you are talking about.

Beloved is a book by Toni Morrison about a female freed slave raising her daughter in relative seclusion.  A young woman calling herself Beloved comes to the main character, and joins her family.  "Beloved" is what the main character wrote on the tombstone of her own two year old daughter, whom she murdered to spare her from a life of slavery.  The book makes it unclear if Beloved is a ghost of the dead daughter, or just a girl with a mysterious past.  it's very, very sad.  Very much a weepy Oprah type flick.  in fact, i think Oprah was in it.  (checks)  Yes, she played the main character.

Beloved is inspired by slave narratives (stories written by former slaves to explain what slavery is like from the perspective of the slave), as is the game Steal Away Jordan.

Quote from: droog;242947Have I got the game for you!

the farm

Wow.  Why am I totally unsurprised that Jared Sorenson of all people has made the vegetarian propoganda game.

:rolleyes: