Quote from: David Johansen;1112683Races ae controversial .....

* Laughs *
<3

Quote from: Brad;1112690Probably any sort of mechanic that gives the players the ability to veto GM fiat. That's not an RPG. It's like saying if all the players on a baseball team think it's a ball, and the umpire calls a strike, it's a ball; completely undermines the position of a referee.

I dislike any RPG that advocates the idea of "sharing" the "GM responsibilities/load" in general. To me they always seem to be written with undertones suggesting that being the GM is a shit job, too much for one person to responsibly handle, an un-fun chore, only power hungry people want to keep all the GM toys to themselves, players are just sheep being thrown breadcrumbs at the GM's mercy, etc. along with the implication that sharing those responsibilities among multiple people somehow automatically equates to a better game and happier players (when IME it has the exact opposite effect; cooks, kitchen, etc.).

Not a trope or mechanic, but I get very upset when someone tries to take my turn for me. Last time someone did this, at an Encounters session, I handed him my character sheet. If you're going to tell me what to do on my turn, every turn, just play my character. I'll join another table. (He got the point and stopped.)

It tends to happen if I ask a rules question. People don't know the difference between a legal move and a good move. The answer to "can I take a 5 foot step after shooting my bow in this edition" becomes "you should shoot at the leader and then take a 5 foot step back so my guy can swing at the dude in front of you." Its very frustrating because it's usually not hard to see a move like that, I was probably already thinking about doing that, and now I don't feel like my creativity is contributing to the game. I'm just a die roller.

Some people believe that sparing you from making a mistake is a favor.

Quote from: Ashakyre;1112697Not a trope or mechanic, but I get very upset when someone tries to take my turn for me.

Funnily enough I've had the opposite problem with one particular player. Whenever combat would start, she would become *so* indecisive when her turn came around that she would poll every other player at the table for what to do, waffle on an idea before moving on to the next one to waffle over, around and around... she would basically do her best to play her character by popular vote.


However, as soon as she *did* come up with an idea for what she wanted to do, she would list out multiple turns worth of actions all in a row. "I swing up onto the catwalk, knock out the three gangers with my robotic fist, run down to the end of the corridor and shut the hatch before the thugs on motorcycles can get inside, then I break the pipe next to me to fill the corridor with flammable gas!"

"Err, right, okay, but let's back up to the swinging up onto the catwalk and punching a guy bit..."

The rubber-banding made my head spin! Soaked up a lot of energy trying to regulate the turn pacing with that one.

Edit: it also didn't help that she was easily frustrated and would sort of throw her hands up and mentally shut down if she was faced with a difficult or complex choice/decision.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1112680Would this include Eclipse Phase where anyone that is not an anarcho-communist is a varying shade of wrong?

Depends on how difficult it is to change that up.  For some games stuff like that is setting fluff only and comparatively easy to rewrite, but other games will bake the required PC worldview into character creation and game operation rules in a way that means you either buy into the setting's assumptions or you rewrite your own rules.

As a matter of principle I think RPGs should err on the side of user options and flexibility as much as possible. Even in Werewolf: The Apocalypse, the players could all play Glass Walker PCs who disagreed with much of the Gaiaism and still make a perfectly viable game out of it.

Thank you for sharing this perspective. Our problem players were each others' solutions!

I had a hesitant player in high school. He was a little slow, not that confident, and a really good guy. I was too impatient in those years and could have handled it better.

Perhaps the personality type I complained about confused me for an indecisive person. Next time I will say "I am not indecisive." It might work better than "I want to what I can do, not what I should do."

Quote from: Antiquation!;1112699Funnily enough I've had the opposite problem with one particular player. Whenever combat would start, she would become *so* indecisive when her turn came around that she would poll every other player at the table for what to do, waffle on an idea before moving on to the next one to waffle over, around and around... she would basically do her best to play her character by popular vote.


However, as soon as she *did* come up with an idea for what she wanted to do, she would list out multiple turns worth of actions all in a row. "I swing up onto the catwalk, knock out the three gangers with my robotic fist, run down to the end of the corridor and shut the hatch before the thugs on motorcycles can get inside, then I break the pipe next to me to fill the corridor with flammable gas!"

"Err, right, okay, but let's back up to the swinging up onto the catwalk and punching a guy bit..."

The rubber-banding made my head spin! Soaked up a lot of energy trying to regulate the turn pacing with that one.

Edit: it also didn't help that she was easily frustrated and would sort of throw her hands up and mentally shut down if she was faced with a difficult or complex choice/decision.

Quote from: Ashakyre;1112708Thank you for sharing this perspective. Our problem players were each others' solutions!

Indeed! It's funny the way interpersonal dynamics work out (or don't) at the table sometimes; even the most troublesome types can work out swimmingly with the right group of complementary personalities, and even the best players can become obstacles with a severely mismatched group.

Quote from: Ashakyre;1112708I had a hesitant player in high school. He was a little slow, not that confident, and a really good guy. I was too impatient in those years and could have handled it better.

Perhaps the personality type I complained about confused me for an indecisive person. Next time I will say "I am not indecisive." It might work better than "I want to what I can do, not what I should do."

Perspective does matter to be sure, I've found often times people who come off as grating at the table aren't acting maliciously but rather addressing some perceived issue either internal or external in a manner perpendicular to my own view of the situation.

I know I could have handled my own "problem" player better; sometimes I let myself become frustrated with the pacing of the game which I believe I telegraphed, and that of course could only exacerbate the way she felt about making a decisive choice (she was more than enthusiastic about the game in general, but would become very self-conscious and timid if I became visibly irritated, which is understandable and a total failure on my part towards handling both her and the game itself).

Quote from: Antiquation!;1112695I dislike any RPG that advocates the idea of "sharing" the "GM responsibilities/load" in general. To me they always seem to be written with undertones suggesting that being the GM is a shit job, too much for one person to responsibly handle, an un-fun chore, only power hungry people want to keep all the GM toys to themselves, players are just sheep being thrown breadcrumbs at the GM's mercy, etc. along with the implication that sharing those responsibilities among multiple people somehow automatically equates to a better game and happier players (when IME it has the exact opposite effect; cooks, kitchen, etc.).

Yeah, again, those aren't RPGs, they're something else. Calling them RPGs is just lazy.

Offense is in the eye of the beholder. Everything is fine as long as the group is on the same wavelenght.

Quote from: Itachi;1112723Offense is in the eye of the beholder. Everything is fine as long as the group is on the same wavelenght.

Considering Erotic Role-Playing is considered its own genre of RPG play, with the broad variety of catered gradients you'd expect... yes, I'd say you're on the money.

Every setting has to be Current Year Seattle. There's nothing more offensive than that.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1112730Every setting has to be Current Year Seattle. There's nothing more offensive than that.

That would be funny if it weren't true.

Rape is generally a non-no, especially when done to a PC. That has always puzzled me. It's fine to chop people's limbs off, torture them, use spells to transform them, terrify them, send them mad and so on, but not ok to have rape in a game.

By the way, I am not advocating rape in games, just stating that it puzzles me.

Quote from: soltakss;1112735Rape is generally a non-no, especially when done to a PC. That has always puzzled me. It's fine to chop people's limbs off, torture them, use spells to transform them, terrify them, send them mad and so on, but not ok to have rape in a game.

By the way, I am not advocating rape in games, just stating that it puzzles me.

I think explicit sex in general is usually off-limits to most groups; non-consensual sex would seem to fall along those lines, plus the added brutality of it. I don't mind if rape exists or happens in a setting, but it seems to be the type of thing that would be clinically worded and faded to black more than anything. "The barbarians slaughter the men, and take their pleasure from the women. The next morning the town is in ruin, and many of the people have been taken as slaves. What do you do?"

If done to a PC, I would imagine similar wording would be used to bedding the barmaid (and would probably be something you'd want to let them know is a possibility ahead of time). "You've been knocked unconscious. The orc drags your elf over to a log and uses you to his satisfaction before picking his weapons back up and making his way off into the woods. You wake up in torn clothes, with all of your coin missing. What do you do?"

Also, I think for a lot of people rape has an "ick" factor that they haven't been desensitized to in the same way as, for example, free and guiltless slaughter/murder.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1112680Would this include Eclipse Phase where anyone that is not an anarcho-communist is a varying shade of wrong?

No. This game is above reproach, is on the Approved List(tm) and is immune to your criticism. Please report to your local Enforcement Authority for readjustment. Thank you.

(Disclaimer: I like EP but I can easily ditch the setting parts I don't like. Also, the art is amazing...)

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[sarcasm]
to the OP: You are absolutely positively NOT allowed to create a setting around any culture that isn't your own. Also, any culture of a minority the reader belongs to. Also, any culture that is not white.

You are absolutely positively NOT allowed to create a setting based around Euro-centric or white American-centric cultures. These are reminders of fascism, racism, oppression and patriarchy.

In FACT, the best games have no culture. Also, no setting. Yeah. Just keep out any details of anything flavorful. I'll insert the CORRECT cultural influences as I deem them necessary.
[/sarcasm]

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Seriously? To all the hand-wringers, outrage specialists, overly sensitive, bored uninspired busy-bodies, fake SJWs, and regressive-left gatekeepers (fake term) I posit the following;

Take a deep breath. Concentrate on the center of your mass. I want you to breath slowly in on a four count. 1... 2.. 3.. 4... Now, exhale slowly on a four count. 1.. 2.. 3.. 4... Good. Now imagine every muscle in your body relaxing. Let all your rage ooze out of your body. Keep breathing in slowly... 1.. 2.. 3.. 4.... Wonderful. I want you to imagine a time long ago when you were a young child in primary school. Remember playing with your favorite toys? I want you to see yourself sitting in your room on the floor surrounded by your friends, laughing and imagining and dreaming about the possibilities of the future. Okay, let's open our eyes.

When you sit down to roleplay do you feel anything like you do now? Do you feel anything like you did when you were a child? Even a little?

If your answer was no - you are in the wrong hobby. Instead of trying to ruin fun time for all the people sitting around you perhaps you would consider doing something more productive with your time? Certainly there is something you would enjoy more than being constantly offended by our microaggressions, desire to think for ourselves and make cool shit we just like? All this anger (outrage) can't be good for your health.

You should sit down and contemplate deeply on how you felt after our exercise and find something that brings you that kind of peace. For the love of God and all that is holy. Something.

Love,