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Author Topic: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?  (Read 3033 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2022, 12:50:18 PM »
A witchdoctor is a “healer or benevolent worker of magic in a nonliterate society” according to Britannica. Warlock or necrolyte may be better
witchdoctors were never prevalent in Europe so it must be racist colonialist whatever to use that term. I know I've seen witchdoctors proclaims as problematic by SJW so it came to mind. Lots of substitutes would be valid though. You could even go with Evangelical if you really want tears and rage.
Well, it was traditionally used pejoratively by colonists and still used that way into the present.

According to this article from 1998: https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/277136/which-witch/
Quote
The term “witch doctor” is derogatory, sensationalistic, and racist. In less enlightened times it was employed to describe the priests and healers of “primitive” (i.e., nonwhite) cultures, and I had hoped that it had fallen into disuse. It is no more appropriate to refer to Max Beauvoir as a witch doctor than to apply that term to a Christian leader, a Jewish rabbi, or any other spiritual leader.

I've seen Pathfinder try to reclaim it in a positive sense. That's clearly not what was Ruprecht was saying.

GeekyBugle

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2022, 01:02:57 PM »
A witchdoctor is a “healer or benevolent worker of magic in a nonliterate society” according to Britannica. Warlock or necrolyte may be better
witchdoctors were never prevalent in Europe so it must be racist colonialist whatever to use that term. I know I've seen witchdoctors proclaims as problematic by SJW so it came to mind. Lots of substitutes would be valid though. You could even go with Evangelical if you really want tears and rage.
Well, it was traditionally used pejoratively by colonists and still used that way into the present.

According to this article from 1998: https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/277136/which-witch/
Quote
The term “witch doctor” is derogatory, sensationalistic, and racist. In less enlightened times it was employed to describe the priests and healers of “primitive” (i.e., nonwhite) cultures, and I had hoped that it had fallen into disuse. It is no more appropriate to refer to Max Beauvoir as a witch doctor than to apply that term to a Christian leader, a Jewish rabbi, or any other spiritual leader.

I've seen Pathfinder try to reclaim it in a positive sense. That's clearly not what was Ruprecht was saying.

I looooove when they put primitive between quotes, yes the vast majority of the world was primitive when the europeans stumbled upon it.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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Chris24601

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2022, 04:22:45 PM »
Just do what I did; put a heroic-looking white male warrior and a hot redhead sorceress on the cover.

Then don’t include a sensitivity statement or any references to the existence of the alphabet people because you’ve focused your limited page count on all the details actually important to your setting.

That should be more than enough to send the wokists into Reeing fits.

oggsmash

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2022, 06:09:46 PM »
Just do what I did; put a heroic-looking white male warrior and a hot redhead sorceress on the cover.

Then don’t include a sensitivity statement or any references to the existence of the alphabet people because you’ve focused your limited page count on all the details actually important to your setting.

That should be more than enough to send the wokists into Reeing fits.

  Honestly, this is all anyone has to do to draw people who are over tired of woke.  No need to make proclamations IMO.

SHARK

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2022, 06:29:28 PM »
Greetings!

I have Witchdoctors in my campaign world.

I'm not changing a thing. I don't care if some people snivel about Witchdoctor's as a term being racist or colonialist. Bullshit.

In my university Anthropology classes, many years ago now, the professors routinely discussed tribal and native WITCHDOCTORS. The professors loved the native and tribal peoples, and lived and studied amongst them for YEARS. They were experts and fucking AUTHORITIES on different tribal peoples from Africa, Asia, North and South America.

If you don't like the term "Witchdoctor" fuck you. Stop being a whining bitch pussy.

Geesus I'm sick of these fucking cunts. So pathetic and unhinged from the real fucking world.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2022, 07:25:52 PM »
It should be witch-physicians, thank you. To avoid confusion with Doctorates in Witchcraft Studies.

GeekyBugle

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2022, 07:29:16 PM »
It should be witch-physicians, thank you. To avoid confusion with Doctorates in Witchcraft Studies.

Could be...



The mexican version is best

« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 07:34:57 PM by GeekyBugle »
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

whatsleft

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2022, 05:51:05 AM »
I don't think it would benefit sales. I wouldn't explicitly seek it out because it's not woke.

What would probably work well is if they design a game that they think is fun, and it gets attacked for having some element that the woke object to. And then the designers tell them to fuck off.

Absolutely agree. We need woke emancipation, not counter-woke policies. From my left point of view we need to stop offense minorities and not to promote minorities, because promote difference is worst, we must create a world in which difference doesn't matter at all. And must of all, freedom of expression.

But as I said in another threads, we miss a very important point to understand the reality: the impact on sales of this woke agenda. It is fundamental to understand the correlation (if any) between sales and wokeness.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 06:04:04 AM by whatsleft »

Philotomy Jurament

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2022, 02:13:59 PM »
I don't know what would happen, but I know that such a marketing claim would turn me off. It's not because the game would be "non-woke," but because it would signal that politics/culture-war was a big design concern, and that's a red flag for me. I don't choose a game to support any front in the culture wars; I choose games I enjoy. My advice would be to just design a game that is fun and cool, and not worry at all about whether it's "woke" or "non-woke." And if culture warriors start bitching about the game, just ignore them completely.
That rug really tied the room together, man.

Anon Adderlan

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2022, 05:16:36 AM »
Simplified, imagine two groups of consumers, colored red and blue, who encounter games coded red or blue and good or bad.
Red consumers buy games coded good, regardless of color. They prefer red but not enough to buy red bad.
Blue consumers buy games coded blue, regardless of quality. They prefer quality but not enough to buy red good.
Run an agent-based simulation and you'll end up with a market dominated by good blue games. The blue consumer gets everything he wants while the red consumer only gets half of what he wants. That's the state we are in today.

Indeed, but I think we're reaching a turning point as the more Blue designers prioritize their politics over playability the less capable they become at producing Quality games, which is why shame and censorship are so important to their agenda. So the key becomes at preventing the latter.

David Johansen

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2022, 09:47:58 AM »
There's a number of supposedly respectable modern professions dominated by white guys that I describe as "witch doctors" all the time.  Does that mean I can add "cultural appropriation" to the list of their many sins?
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HappyDaze

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2022, 10:21:11 AM »
I've worked with one practicing physician that claims to be Wiccan. Yes, she sometimes calls herself a witch doctor.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2022, 10:55:27 AM »
There's a number of supposedly respectable modern professions dominated by white guys that I describe as "witch doctors" all the time.  Does that mean I can add "cultural appropriation" to the list of their many sins?
“Witch doctor” was invented as a pejorative by Western civilization, so this wouldn’t be cultural appropriation. I guess.

I've worked with one practicing physician that claims to be Wiccan. Yes, she sometimes calls herself a witch doctor.
Assuming she isn’t using that in jest or pun… This is “reclamation,” when a pejorative is used in a positive sense by those it was previously used to denigrate. Or at least it would be if she wasn’t Euro-pagan, I guess.

Cultural appropriation is a needlessly complicated issue because it’s decided on a case-by-case basis by people with differing opinions on the subject. It would be so much much easier if we lived in a hive mind where everyone had the same opinion and were completely honest with each other.

I

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2022, 01:21:24 PM »
Billing a game as "non-woke" would not improve sales and would almost certainly hurt them.  All but the Woke generally resent the shoehorning of current-day politics into their games, even politics they might agree with.

Drude

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Re: what do you think would happen if a game was billed as "Non woke"?
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2022, 02:48:22 PM »
Wretched Bastards (and it's adventures) from the Red Room is definitely anti-Woke
https://twitter.com/moordereht/status/1519694005054943233/photo/1

https://moordereht.com/wretched-bastards