Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;874886The number of "catpiss men" I encountered in all those years and cons could be counted on one hand.

But they were there!

I have met a few over the years, doesn't really bother me.

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;874979As far as erotic content at the gaming table goes, I'm a "fade to black" guy for sure.  That sort of thing gets uncomfortable pretty quick.

Yes, and so am I, unless I'm playing with people I know and feel they'd appreciate it otherwise. I'm yet to be proven wrong in my assessement.

QuoteI haven't read the entire thread but it was noted early on that there is a dichotomy of sorts in the fact that we're OK with all sorts of violence a the table but sex is taboo.  True to an extent, but I don't think it's as big a dichotomy as some think.

Shrug. I happen to think it is, and an illogical one at that.

QuoteIn my experience, most of the violence is handled off screen too.  "I lopped off the Orc's head!" is fine, but "I sliced open his gut causing his innards to tumble out onto the floor in a steaming mess.  He screams in agony and falls to his knees desperately trying to collect his entrails and shove them back in at which point I lop off his head sending a geyser of blood up to the ceiling!"  is perhaps less OK...particularly if everything is being described in that sort of gory detail.

The latter is what a deadly blow is like in my campaigns, though. Don't like it? Try not to kill people.

QuoteFtmp, the violence in games I've played has been pretty cartoonish and it doesn't take long before the detail gets to be too much...so many of us are OK with "action movie violence" but not so OK with realistic portrayals of violence.  

It's a valid preference. It's just one that bores me to tears.
I don't go for cartoonish even in highly cinematic settings.

QuoteAlso, while on the surface it seems pretty odd that violence is "more acceptable" than sex, it makes a certain amount of sense to me.  I mean for the vast majority of us, violence exists in the realm of pure fantasy.  None of us (or at least very very few of us) are going to go home after a game night and start shooting guns and swinging swords at anyone.

Funny, for years my group ended the session when it was time to go practicing with swords;).

QuoteI'm 49 and haven't had so much as a fist fight since maybe grade 3.

My last experience was much more recent. Let's leave it at that.

QuoteSex otoh is a very real part of many of our lives.  It's actually something that we do...or at least we want to do, lol.

Well, that part at least is simiar:p!

QuoteWhen you have someone at the table describing sex acts in detail, there's much more of a sense that they are describing actions that might be something they might actually want to do.  There's a higher degree of "squickishness" to the whole thing.  It pretty quickly morphs into a "too much information" situation...

It be might, or it might not.
Just as I wouldn't always go for the kill when my character would, I wouldn't want to do every sex act my characters have gotten to. Let's just say we've received different upbringing in both respects, and leave it at that:D!
That said, such acts are almost always best left to the fading. That's something we agree on.
I suspect that people that disagree on that have just never had a group they'd feel comfortable describing such details. I might be wrong, of course, though I doubt that;).

Quote from: soltakss;875026But they were there!

A single-digit number of individuals can't be allowed to shape a whole segment of the roleplaying hobby.

Quote from: AsenRG;875064It be might, or it might not.
Just as I wouldn't always go for the kill when my character would, I wouldn't want to do every sex act my characters have gotten to. Let's just say we've received different upbringing in both respects, and leave it at that:D!
That said, such acts are almost always best left to the fading. That's something we agree on.
I suspect that people that disagree on that have just never had a group they'd feel comfortable describing such details. I might be wrong, of course, though I doubt that;).

yeah, my point wasn't really that there was any logic or reality to that feeling...just that it's a reasonable expectation.  I mean the guy sitting across the table might be a serial killer in real life and he might go home and do some really bad shit...but probably it's more likely that he'll go home and shag his wife/gf/significant other...

What I was suggesting was that most of us (you may or may not be in that "most") have a more personal connection to sex than we do violence.  I mean as parents we have to discuss sex with our kids in the understanding that they are going to likely want to have sex at some point in their lives and while we don't want to hurry that activity too much we also don't want to dissuade it really.  Violence otoh is something that we don't want our kids to have any dealings with at all in reality.  There's an expectation that sex will happen, and a hopr that violence won't.  

For myself, I can't imagine a group that i'd feel comfortable expressing detailed erotic situations with during a game.  ymmv...

As far as practicing with swords goes, I'd suggest there's a pretty significant distance between that and chopping somebody's head off with a sword.  

I have no idea what catpiss smells like, and am relatively convinced I have never encountered this "Catpiss Man" archetype. Of course, I've always gamed with friends, i.e. people I would otherwise hang around with. I've never been to an RPG convention. But I've been to several comicbook and wargame conventions, and still have managed to avoid encountering even so much as a "neckbeard".

Quote from: TristramEvans;875092I have no idea what catpiss smells like, and am relatively convinced I have never encountered this "Catpiss Man" archetype. Of course, I've always gamed with friends, i.e. people I would otherwise hang around with. I've never been to an RPG convention. But I've been to several comicbook and wargame conventions, and still have managed to avoid encountering even so much as a "neckbeard".

Cat piss smells like ammonia.

Quote from: TristramEvans;875092I have no idea what catpiss smells like, and am relatively convinced I have never encountered this "Catpiss Man" archetype.

It's an eye watering smell.  If you had encountered one, you would know.  I don't remember ever encountering on either but my family has always had cats.  If you had encountered someone who smelled like that, you would remember it.

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;875075yeah, my point wasn't really that there was any logic or reality to that feeling...just that it's a reasonable expectation.

It's the reasonable part I disagree of, unless you add "for people in your social circle".

QuoteI mean the guy sitting across the table might be a serial killer in real life and he might go home and do some really bad shit...but probably it's more likely that he'll go home and shag his wife/gf/significant other...

Statistically, one of those is more likely. Of course, if you have even the hint of suspicion a guy might be on the evil side IRL, you don't play with him. You excuse yourself and leave, making sure he wouldn't follow you...

QuoteWhat I was suggesting was that most of us (you may or may not be in that "most") have a more personal connection to sex than we do violence.

True, that, but you were talking "no connection". That part, I feel, isn't really valid for many people, often simply by virtue of location.

QuoteI mean as parents we have to discuss sex with our kids in the understanding that they are going to likely want to have sex at some point in their lives and while we don't want to hurry that activity too much we also don't want to dissuade it really.  Violence otoh is something that we don't want our kids to have any dealings with at all in reality.  There's an expectation that sex will happen, and a hopr that violence won't.  

Well, no.
I've got to discuss stuff with my daughter, and said stuff includes violence. She's 3 yo, and she's had kids her age becoming abusive;).
Not discussing it is, in my opinion, the equivalent of not discussing safe sex with her because of hopes that she'd keep herself pure until the marriage. In other words, I'd call it irresponsible parenting, unless you subscribe to a particular worldview that requires it, and you know the kid also subscribes to it.

QuoteFor myself, I can't imagine a group that i'd feel comfortable expressing detailed erotic situations with during a game.  ymmv...

Never played with your girlfriend:p?

QuoteAs far as practicing with swords goes, I'd suggest there's a pretty significant distance between that and chopping somebody's head off with a sword.  

There is, of course, but you said "swinging swords at anyone". I'm definitely swinging swords at someone, three types of swords being used most often:D!
And even a blunt sword may do lots of damage. It's a constant struggle for us to find better equipment to prevent it;).

I always assumed "Catpiss man" was a colloquialism for someone with very bad hygiene and powerful offensive body odor not that they all literally smelled like cat urine?

Quote from: AsenRG;875125It's the reasonable part I disagree of, unless you add "for people in your social circle".


Statistically, one of those is more likely. Of course, if you have even the hint of suspicion a guy might be on the evil side IRL, you don't play with him. You excuse yourself and leave, making sure he wouldn't follow you...


True, that, but you were talking "no connection". That part, I feel, isn't really valid for many people, often simply by virtue of location.


Well, no.
I've got to discuss stuff with my daughter, and said stuff includes violence. She's 3 yo, and she's had kids her age becoming abusive;).
Not discussing it is, in my opinion, the equivalent of not discussing safe sex with her because of hopes that she'd keep herself pure until the marriage. In other words, I'd call it irresponsible parenting, unless you subscribe to a particular worldview that requires it, and you know the kid also subscribes to it.


Never played with your girlfriend:p?


There is, of course, but you said "swinging swords at anyone". I'm definitely swinging swords at someone, three types of swords being used most often:D!
And even a blunt sword may do lots of damage. It's a constant struggle for us to find better equipment to prevent it;).

Much of what I said was presented in a "half-joking" manner.  If you want to take each point and treat it like it was a serious scholarly assertion you can, but you're taking it more seriously than I intend.  

For instance, yes I have "played" with my girlfriend (wife actually).  But I've never "role-played" with her.  She ain't into that.  My gaming consists of a group of 4 or 5 individuals of varying ages but pretty much always men who I have no interest in exploring detailed sexual content with.  

And yes, I said "going home and swinging swords."  I think you know that I meant swinging them in such a way as to actually try and kill someone.  Of course we discuss violence with our kids - but not in a sense that we expect or want them to experience it in their lives.  

OK, so you live in a violent part of the world and you game with people you feel extremely comfortable with in terms of exploring sexual content, and after the game you all go home and swing swords at each other.  Great.  I'm going to go ahead and suggest you may be a bit of a rare case.  I could be wrong and in that case then I will say that my thoughts on the subject are nothing more than an effort to explain why I myself have a bit less trouble with violence in games than I do eroticism.  Again, YMMV.  

Actually now that I think about it, since the point about how it's "weird" that violence is OK but sex isn't is usually directed at us North Americans (and more pointedly at Americans really) it's probably appropriate for me to limit my thoughts to my own part of the world as well.  In other words I guess I'm only offering an idea for why we in North America are a bit more accepting of violent content than sexual content.

Quote from: Nexus;875135I always assumed "Catpiss man" was a colloquialism for someone with very bad hygiene and powerful offensive body odor not that they all literally smelled like cat urine?

Yeah more or less my take as well.  The same character exists in other "nerdy" realms - there's comicbook guy and videogame guy too.  Very similar types.  Essentially it's a person who has become so invested in the hobby that it takes precedence over everything including bathing regularly.  I've definitely encountered that person.  I was in a video game shop a few weeks back and there was a very grungy guy in a trench coat there talking much too loudly and intensely in a sort of breathy, "desperate" voice to the clerk about his personal pet peeves in crpgs...I could only take about a minute before I had to move on.  I found it embarrassing actually...

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;875142Much of what I said was presented in a "half-joking" manner.  If you want to take each point and treat it like it was a serious scholarly assertion you can, but you're taking it more seriously than I intend.

That's simply how I answer to post with more than one point. If you had used more emoticons, I'd have assumed a half-joking manner. As it was, I didn't.

QuoteFor instance, yes I have "played" with my girlfriend (wife actually).  But I've never "role-played" with her.  She ain't into that.  My gaming consists of a group of 4 or 5 individuals of varying ages but pretty much always men who I have no interest in exploring detailed sexual content with.  

Why "played"? I mean, have you played with your wife in the same RPG group?
And in the group you describe, it's pretty much a given you'd revert to no detailed content. There's a reason it's my default approach as well:).

No, I don't know that you were using "swinging swords" in such a way. Swords can cause serious harm without even the shade of an intent to kill. These are roughly 1,2 - 1,3 kg metal bars, after all. The damage is likely to be comparable to some "light" brawling (i.e. most "monkey dancing").

And of course, I wouldn't discuss violence with my daughter unless I felt that she might realistically encounter it. It's not a topic I feel is particularly nice.

QuoteOK, so you live in a violent part of the world and you game with people you feel extremely comfortable with in terms of exploring sexual content, and after the game you all go home and swing swords at each other.  Great.

Luckily, "a violent part of the world" is untrue. The rest of it is true for only one of my groups...which happens to contain my wife, too.
Does it mean I'm a rare case? Maybe I am - to the extent that I have a hobby not so many people like. But a lot of those that do are RPG players, so there's quite a bit of overlap.
Or do you mean I'm a rare case because some people seem not to play with their SOs (for reasons that elude me)? If so, maybe they should try it.

QuoteI could be wrong and in that case then I will say that my thoughts on the subject are nothing more than an effort to explain why I myself have a bit less trouble with violence in games than I do eroticism.  Again, YMMV.  

Likewise.

And if you're talking about the USA only, then yes - I could see it. Doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't still find it weird that you have less trouble stomaching the sight of a shooting gun that kills people than of consensual sex between adults;).

Quote from: TristramEvans;875092I've never been to an RPG convention.

If you enjoyed wargame cons, you'll enjoy RPG cons.

If you didn't encounter a meaningful amount of freaks at wargame cons, you won't at RPG cons either.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;874791It's part and parcel with the nerd-gamer stereotype along with mouth-breather, fat, greasy, pervy, basement dwelling, fedora and flames/oriental dragon shirt, etc. etc. that may or may not ever come together in real life.

Now we're ragging on fedoras AND my flaming oriental dragon wardrobe?

Between this and Jim Breuer whining about Slayer fans, I'm one micro-aggression away from becoming an oppressed minority!

My favorite RPG fashion fad was the guys wearing mirrorshades when they played Cyberpunk and Shadowrun. I found that in SF and LA. Anyone else remember that?

Also, let's be honest kids, am I the only one willing to admit to running L5R wearing a kimono? I know I wasn't the only one.

Quote from: Nexus;875135I always assumed "Catpiss man" was a colloquialism for someone with very bad hygiene and powerful offensive body odor not that they all literally smelled like cat urine?

I got the impression that it was rather more literal than that.  It was for a guy who got thrown out of a game store I used to go to ages ago.

Quote from: RPGPundit;870792There's some parts of old-school play that seem to like to emphasize a certain amount of erotic content; usually of the slightly sophomoric 'sleazy' variety, without ever really going into full-on sordid, and generally acting much more 'dangerous' than it really is.  I mean stuff like some of what you see in some of James Desborough's stuff (Machinations of the Space Princess), or some of Venger Satanis' work.

But I've never actually met gamers who tend to like to get into that stuff in actual play.  If you read my DCC campaign logs, some of it certainly sounds really very sordid, but in actual play almost all of the erotic stuff is only implied and/or happens totally 'off-camera'.

What about everyone else here?  What do you think about this type of 'sleazy' play like Desborough seems to want to push?

Also, would your answer be any different if it was much more explicit and offensive stuff like the "rape an 11 year old virgin 11 times" stuff you see in Carcosa?

RPGPundit

I use fade to black for sex. This is rarely necessary, though.


Brothels, harlots, trafficking of women, and some instances implied/offscreen assault and abuse (assault and abuse used only in rare instances and with players I have come  know well, who feel comfortable with grim elements in play) and have all shown up in my PBP  campaigns.
Except for a few brief descriptions of pretty doxies and alluring dancing girls, this sex related content has been sordid and grim instead of sexy.

The trafficking and abuse elements were done by villains, and stopped by PCs.

Romance and marriage have come up more than once. Babies come along. The stork brought them? No, but that fade to black/ it happens off screen rule remains in effect.



I lean toward "PG rating" for  games I run with mixed groups of adults and kids. You just aren't going to encounter saucy harlots in a game I run with a nine year old girl as a player, much less anything really dark like abuse and assault.

In high school days when I gamed with only dudes, sex almost never came up at the table, besides the occasional joke.