If you can manage a large enough player base to have multiple exploring parties, the rumors and legends the players swap are worth it for that alone.

Quote from: Dumarest;998146Right, so no answer to the question but instead a brief nonresponsive lecture about different types of gaming. Put away the soapbox. Nobody's forcing you to answer what you like about megadungeons.

Your OP had the following

Quote from: Dumarest;998008I saw there were a couple of recent threads about megadungeons on here. As I've never understood the appeal, I'm curious to know: What do you like about megadungeons?

My answer is that the appeal of megadungeon is the same as fantasy settings in general. You can have megadungeons that have cities, you can have megadungeons with underground wilderness like with Vault of the Drow, any you can do with a hex grid of green and brown blobs you can do with a maze with rooms.

People don't like megadungeons they like specific setting that are in the form of a mega dungeon. For example I like the Barrowmaze, Dwimmermount, and my own Majestic Fastness. I ran Tegal Manor successfully but it a bit too gonzo for me to do again but it was fun for the one time But the appeal of each is unique to the setting each depicts.

Barrowmaze doesn't have a lived in feel but it wonderful at depicting a vast necropolis with a overarching menace and mystery to solve. Dwimmermount does have a lived in feel and a sense of history that I like. My own Majestic Fastness can summed up as a vast hidden city of evil with a few mysteries tucked away in its deepest reaches. One thing that Tegal Manor does well is it minimalist presentation. The map and text work hand and hand to give a referee plenty to riff off as the players explore.

I don't like the Worlds Largest Dungeon nor do I like Castle Whiterock. While I admire the effort that went into the Castle of the Mad Archmage and own it, it not my cup of tea. Nor find Castle Blackmoor as detailed in the First Fantasy Campaign particularly inspiring.

Again your OP wasn't just about what people like about megadungeon, it was also about you understanding the appeal. My answer still stand, a megadungeon is a setting, it will appeal or not appeal on the same basis you use to decide whether you like Harn, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or dozens of other setting depicted as blobs or green and brown. That the fact is set within mazes with rooms doesn't make it special.

For Gronan talks about how dynamic they can be and how players can alter them that have an impact on other groups and in later campaign. That was something I did with the urban locales and wildernesses of the Majestic Wilderlands. It not a feature of specific to megadungeon campaigns.

If you want to use to try using megadungeons my suggestion is to make your own by getting a copy of Tegel Manor from Goodman Games, look at its minimalist format, then draw your maps with notes like Tegel , and write your text with enough hints and Mnemonics so when read later your thoughts about the area come back to you. This way you are not stuck making hundreds of pages of notes and can probably sketch out something usable and extensive enough with one or two weeks worth of evening prep.

Quote from: Dumarest;998008I saw there were a couple of recent threads about megadungeons on here. As I've never understood the appeal, I'm curious to know: What do you like about megadungeons?

I like mapping (in fact I'm writing a piece about different mapping techniques/strategies for The Twisting Stair #3), and exploring, so mega-dungeons are great for that.  I enjoy well-designed, challenging dungeon levels that make me work hard to explore and "solve" them---whether that's monsters, traps, tricks, enigmas, centerpiece encounters (like the Great Stone Face in Castle Greyhawk), etc.  

But the exploration and mapping across a big, well-connected dungeon is great fun as an adventure for me and my regular or semi-regular crews of players (here at home or at GaryCon and North Texas RPG Con).  

Quote from: Bren;998151But there are more than a few things to like about megadungeons.

1. They are fun for the GM to create.
2. They are fun for players to explore. (As a player I like mapping.)
8. A megadungeon provides a good source of adventure for single sessionss with an an ad hoc, pickup group of PCs.

Agreed, all-around.  

Quote from: Bren;9981517. Dungeon exploration is a default source of something to do.

I also think that a well-designed mega-dungeon with engaged, active players is really easy to run---the default "something to do" builds nicely out of the previous sessions' play and guides the players' planning for where to go/what to do next.  

Allan.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998130Well, I hate the term "megadungeon," but that's personal taste.

Curious about what you dislike about the term, Michael?

Allan.

It's a DUNGEON.  It's Greyhawk DUNGEON.  Blackmoor DUNGEON.  Et cetera.

"Megadungeon" is a meaningless, confusing neologism.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998394It's a DUNGEON.  It's Greyhawk DUNGEON.  Blackmoor DUNGEON.  Et cetera.

"Megadungeon" is a meaningless, confusing neologism.

That's a weird issue.  It's like saying "I don't like the word car.  It's a Toyota.  It's a Nissan."  There's nothing very confusing about the term "megadungeon."  It's a really really big dungeon.  

As far as the appeal of a mega dungeon...well, D&D is pretty heavily concerned with the notion of tomb-raiding taken to ridiculous extremes.  The idea of raiding the "mother of all tombs" is sort of appealing in that sense.  Personally, I think in the context of the sort of world the game implies, a "mythic underworld" makes perfect sense.  I mean why wouldn't Nyarlathotep (for instance) set up and run his own massive and insane little rat maze to enthrall and beguile adventurers?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998394It's a DUNGEON.  It's Greyhawk DUNGEON.  Blackmoor DUNGEON.  Et cetera.

"Megadungeon" is a meaningless, confusing neologism.

All I know there is a distinct difference in scope and tone between Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Jakalla, the Underdark of the D series and Tegel compared to Search of the Unknown and Keep on the Borderlands.

That the tournament style detail of One to three level dungeons don't scale well to the scope encompassed by the aforementioned dungeons necessitating a different approach to prepping them.

Those are "tombs" or "ruins" or something.

"Dungeon" came first.  Call them "mini dungeons" if you have to rather than the term "megadungeon."  It's like nails on a blackboard.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998453Those are "tombs" or "ruins" or something.

"Dungeon" came first.  Call them "mini dungeons" if you have to rather than the term "megadungeon."  It's like nails on a blackboard.

I remember back in the 70s people saying "I'm running my dungeon today." or "I'm playing in Fred's dungeon today."

Unfortunately that use of the term did not hold across the gamers who came into the game in the 80s and played mostly modules. For them, dungeon, may just imply the 1-10 pages of maps in a module. So as the OSR got steam and started looking back at how the game was played in the 70s, or at what was implied by the actual rules for play, people were looking for a term to distinguish the "dungeon" of the 70s from the "dungeon" of the modules. I have no idea what the first use of mega-dungeon is (and some folks use that term for a module dungeon that is more than 2 or 3 pages of maps...), but I find it's a useful term because the communities I converse in all use the term to talk about huge multi-level dungeons. I've also heard the term "campaign dungeon."

Frank

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998453Those are "tombs" or "ruins" or something.

"Dungeon" came first.  Call them "mini dungeons" if you have to rather than the term "megadungeon."  It's like nails on a blackboard.

Well OK.  I don't suffer from the issue you do...

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998453Those are "tombs" or "ruins" or something.

"Dungeon" came first.  Call them "mini dungeons" if you have to rather than the term "megadungeon."  It's like nails on a blackboard.

Therein lies the issue. Since the renewed interest in a huge sprawling dungeon or dungeon as a primary setting is recent it what gets a new term.

Yeah, and megadungeons are still the more rare of the dungeon types.  You have lots and lots of regular dungeons, and then on a few occasions you have megadungeons.  If megadungeons were the norm and smaller dungeons the rarer case then sure, "minidungeons" would make sense.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998453Those are "tombs" or "ruins" or something.

"Dungeon" came first.  Call them "mini dungeons" if you have to rather than the term "megadungeon."  It's like nails on a blackboard.

I agree that the word "tomb" connotes a smaller size dungeon, but a "ruin" might be the ruin of a house, tower, fort, town, city, or even a megalopolis. So ruin doesn't work to differentiate size or scale.

Whether one prefers to call things dungeons and megadungeons or mini-dungeons and dungeons is a matter of complete indifference to me. I think we all understand that

   mini-dungeon < dungeon < megadungeon

with the caveat that one, but not both, inequalities may actually be a less than or equal to.

You know, the fact that I don't happen to like the word "megadungeon" is REALLY not worth all the energy that's been expended on it.

Hey man. It's an RPG forum man. Like nothing here is worth the energy we're expending on it.