What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade and swashbuckling in a world with spaceships and starships.

Its the joy of unfettered capitalism whilst traveling the stars.

-Edmund

Quote from: Aglondir on August 28, 2022, 10:52:20 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 27, 2022, 12:46:53 AM
What makes the Traveller setting appealing to you?

HappyDaze,

It might be what it is not: it is not Star Wars or Star Trek, with all of the baggage and problems that those settings entail. But to be more precise, here's what I like:

1. Age of Sail. With No FTL comms, messages travel only as fast as the fastest ship, which creates a retro feel for a game set in the far future. Even moreso if the game is about piracy or privateering. It's possible to outrun any crimes you might commit, at least for a while.

2. Human-centric. Yeah, Traveller has aliens, but they seem more like NPC options to me. This takes the focus away from "What kewl powerz does my guy have?" and brings it closer to home. "Who am I, and what's going on here?" That taps into a larger issue than setting elements, more on the premise of the game, which is a separate conversation.

3. Not about tech. Sure, high tech is out there and the players might seek it out. Or not. But the default assumption is that the players start with a ship, firearms, and blades. It brings the game down to earth. Instead of looking for tech to solve every problem (e.g. Star Trek) players need to focus on schemes and plans.

4. Psionics. Many people hate psi, but I actually like it so long as it is low key and illegal. Again, no Kewl Powerz, this isn't a superhero game. But something that creates conflict and opens up adventure possibilities (e.g. Babylon 5.)

5. Small ships, but not starfighters. What I'm talking about here is that the standard setup is for the players start with a small ship (scout, free trader, lab ship, etc.) and start exploring the galaxy. It's not dogfights in space (e.g. Star Wars) or carrier battles (e.g. BSG.)

6. Nobility. It reminds me of Dune, with noble houses engaged in centuries-long schemes. Again, sort of a retro feel, opens up all kinds of campaign ideas.

7. Freedom. When I was younger, I looked at my first Traveller character and thought "44? Who wants to play a character who is that old?" LOL. But Traveller characters are RETIRED. They've done their time, worked for the Man, and now it's all about what they WANT to do rather than what they HAVE to do. Hopefully, what they want to do is go on adventures and make some money.


It sounds overdone by this point, and many Traveller grognards may balk, but the sci-fi franchise that checks a lot of these boxes is Firefly. Retired military takes legit jobs when they can, commits crimes when they must-- anything to keep the ship flying.

This is actually VERY helpful. Thank you.

Unfortunately, the points mentioned are largely things I don't want in a sci-fi game. In particular, points 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 along with the whole "retro sci-fi feel" are what I'm not looking for in a sci-fi game. Your post has helped me to organize/itemize my objections to the setting that I'll be discussing with the GM next week (he can't make it tomorrow, so one of the other players and I will be blowing up some ships in a game of Federation Commander).

EDIT: Added 3 to the above list of points that indicate Traveller's setting is not for me.

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade and swashbuckling in a world with spaceships and starships.

Its the joy of unfettered capitalism whilst traveling the stars.

-Edmund

Yeah, and that's definitely NOT what I'm looking for in a sci-fi game right now.

But Traveller can be about other things.  One of the subplots of Agent of the Imperium is about a guy who hosted the agent chip for a while going through dementia and one day he wakes up as the agent and the agent falls in love and goes on vacation.  Traveller can be about people on the human scale.  The imperial stuff is generally pretty far above what affects the player characters.  But even on that level there's stuff like Arch Duke Noris and his Psionic aide and lover and his clone daughter.  Strephon's desire to stop Lucan and Dulinor's pure terror of Strephon getting in the way of what could have been the alliance that ended the war that destroyed the third Imperium.  It's the rebel reporter hounding Illiek Kulligan about his parking fines.  The adventures of the cast of DGP's Grand Tour.  Somehow Traveller manages to lose these human stories in its endless compressed strings of data. *
Megatraveller certainly tried to humanize the factions in the side bars but the real masterwork was Survival Margin.

The Third Imperium is like a canvas or maybe a bulletin board where stories happen.

*what every you do, don't suggest to Marc Miller that there should be a lifestory hexidecimal string.

Quote from: David Johansen on August 28, 2022, 11:58:02 PM
But Traveller can be about other things.

Sure, but as Aglondir said previously, it's "age of sail, humanocentric, and not about the tech." These points are very similar to what my GM has said (less succinctly) he likes about the setting, so it's fairly unlikely that these elements will not be prevalent. Unfortunately, those features of the setting are more bugs in my eyes. Sure, I could try to enjoy it despite it being almost exactly what I'm not interested in playing, but that doesn't seem like a good use of my gaming time to me.

Quote from: Aglondir on August 28, 2022, 10:52:20 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 27, 2022, 12:46:53 AM
What makes the Traveller setting appealing to you?

HappyDaze,

It might be what it is not: it is not Star Wars or Star Trek, with all of the baggage and problems that those settings entail. But to be more precise, here's what I like:

1. Age of Sail. With No FTL comms, messages travel only as fast as the fastest ship, which creates a retro feel for a game set in the far future. Even moreso if the game is about piracy or privateering. It's possible to outrun any crimes you might commit, at least for a while.

2. Human-centric. Yeah, Traveller has aliens, but they seem more like NPC options to me. This takes the focus away from "What kewl powerz does my guy have?" and brings it closer to home. "Who am I, and what's going on here?" That taps into a larger issue than setting elements, more on the premise of the game, which is a separate conversation.

3. Not about tech. Sure, high tech is out there and the players might seek it out. Or not. But the default assumption is that the players start with a ship, firearms, and blades. It brings the game down to earth. Instead of looking for tech to solve every problem (e.g. Star Trek) players need to focus on schemes and plans.

4. Psionics. Many people hate psi, but I actually like it so long as it is low key and illegal. Again, no Kewl Powerz, this isn't a superhero game. But something that creates conflict and opens up adventure possibilities (e.g. Babylon 5.)

5. Small ships, but not starfighters. What I'm talking about here is that the standard setup is for the players start with a small ship (scout, free trader, lab ship, etc.) and start exploring the galaxy. It's not dogfights in space (e.g. Star Wars) or carrier battles (e.g. BSG.)

6. Nobility. It reminds me of Dune, with noble houses engaged in centuries-long schemes. Again, sort of a retro feel, opens up all kinds of campaign ideas.

7. Freedom. When I was younger, I looked at my first Traveller character and thought "44? Who wants to play a character who is that old?" LOL. But Traveller characters are RETIRED. They've done their time, worked for the Man, and now it's all about what they WANT to do rather than what they HAVE to do. Hopefully, what they want to do is go on adventures and make some money.


It sounds overdone by this point, and many Traveller grognards may balk, but the sci-fi franchise that checks a lot of these boxes is Firefly. Retired military takes legit jobs when they can, commits crimes when they must-- anything to keep the ship flying.

That's a very nice list - makes me want to grab my LBB books and run a few games.  I think it could be summarized as "grounded sf,"  which is what I usually want in such a game.

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade and swashbuckling in a world with spaceships and starships.

Its the joy of unfettered capitalism whilst traveling the stars.

-Edmund

Holy shit, that reads like a political statement.

I would vote for the Traveller party.  Even if their promises of Fusion Plus [TM], Antigrav, and Jump Drive by 2030 was pure hogwash.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 29, 2022, 05:58:46 AM

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade.......

Holy shit, that reads like a political statement.

Wasn't intended that way - but okay.
To me, that was the stuff that made it fun.

- Ed C.

Funny, I love the 3 LBBs and Cepheus Engine, but I'm not a fan of the Imperium.  It's just too big and too much lore.  The setting of a small crew on a small ship in a blue collar galaxy appeals to me.  I also want to tell my our stories of exploration, first contact, and xeno archeology.

Quote from: Koltar on August 29, 2022, 10:27:56 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 29, 2022, 05:58:46 AM

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade.......

Holy shit, that reads like a political statement.

Wasn't intended that way - but okay.
To me, that was the stuff that made it fun.

- Ed C.

That's a pretty lame bit of intellectual dishonesty you just posted.

And yet, that is very much what the Third Imperium is.  The great laws are don't impede trade and don't use nukes on planets.  It's a capitalist playground where the trillionaires gave themselves noble titles for kicks.

Quote from: David Johansen on August 29, 2022, 02:26:45 PM
And yet, that is very much what the Third Imperium is.  The great laws are don't impede trade and don't use nukes on planets.  It's a capitalist playground where the trillionaires gave themselves noble titles for kicks.

If you want it to be, then yes it is.

However, it isn't "unfettered capitalism" like Koltar said upthread. If it was, then the megacorporations would control all economic activity from the legitimate to the black markets and profit no matter what happens or who dies. The other alien governments would be victimized as often if not more often than the Third Imperium. It would be a far more dark future Cyberpunk kind of setting.

Did the Third Imperium start as "trillionaires with noble titles"? Yes, but that was not what it evolved in to (and it wasn't even that in the beginning of Milieu  0).

Now, as for calling Koltar out on his intellectual dishonesty, it is a lame attempt to edit your own post to say something different when the damn thing has been quoted and still exists upthread.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 29, 2022, 02:53:33 PM

However, it isn't "unfettered capitalism" like Koltar said upthread. If it was, then the megacorporations would control all economic activity from the legitimate to the black markets and profit no matter what happens or who dies. The other alien governments would be victimized as often if not more often than the Third Imperium. It would be a far more dark future Cyberpunk kind of setting.

Did the Third Imperium start as "trillionaires with noble titles"? Yes, but that was not what it evolved in to (and it wasn't even that in the beginning of Milieu  0).

Now, as for calling Koltar out on his intellectual dishonesty, it is a lame attempt to edit your own post to say something different when the damn thing has been quoted and still exists.....

Think I see the problem - your definition of 'capitalism' is wrong and biased.

There was no 'dishonesty' in what I said

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar on August 29, 2022, 03:10:54 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 29, 2022, 02:53:33 PM

However, it isn't "unfettered capitalism" like Koltar said upthread. If it was, then the megacorporations would control all economic activity from the legitimate to the black markets and profit no matter what happens or who dies. The other alien governments would be victimized as often if not more often than the Third Imperium. It would be a far more dark future Cyberpunk kind of setting.

Did the Third Imperium start as "trillionaires with noble titles"? Yes, but that was not what it evolved in to (and it wasn't even that in the beginning of Milieu  0).

Now, as for calling Koltar out on his intellectual dishonesty, it is a lame attempt to edit your own post to say something different when the damn thing has been quoted and still exists.....

Think I see the problem - your definition of 'capitalism' is wrong and biased.

There was no 'dishonesty' in what I said

- Ed C.

Yes there is you dense Klingon Kosplaying fuckwit. I'll make it simple for you to understand.

The intellectual dishonesty you display is here.

This is what you originally posted:

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade and swashbuckling in a world with spaceships and starships.

Its the joy of unfettered capitalism whilst traveling the stars.

-Edmund

Then you modified your quote to make it read not so much like a political statement.

Quote from: Koltar on August 29, 2022, 10:27:56 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 29, 2022, 05:58:46 AM

Quote from: Koltar on August 28, 2022, 10:56:01 PM
What is appealing about it all?

The emphasis on high spirited Free Trade.......

Holy shit, that reads like a political statement.

Wasn't intended that way - but okay.
To me, that was the stuff that made it fun.

- Ed C.

That is what I call intellectual dishonesty.

Now, tell me what your definition of "unfettered capitalism" is and maybe we can have an honest conversation.