Quote from: Novastar;574784The problem I generally run into with point-buy systems [...]

I'm trying to stay helpful and avoid dragging my personal pet rants into this thread, but in brief: 1) effects-based point-buy systems are a trap in any genre, and 2) they are an exceptionally poor model for superpowers, especially four-colour superpowers.

MSH's way of handling this - here's a general sort of Power, now come up with some Stunts you can do with it - is the way superpowers actually work in real comic books.

Icons! does a good job of this as well.  I've had some fun with HeroQuest2's rules, but that's a very DIY solution.

Quote from: Novastar;574784The problem I generally run into with point-buy systems is inevitably there's someone who's far better than anyone else at "milking" the system (due to having more books, more experience, or just being that rules lawyer type), and the complaint of "balance" rears it's head again.

That, and with my HERO GM, we never could agree on building the same power (say Spider-man's webshooters) the same way. Not once.

If players think of their characters as points, they have already failed before they started.  Because the end result is not about points.  Point hogs don't role-play, and they make ludicrous min/max characters that can't be role-played anyway.  Tabletop RPGs are simply not for them.

I'm a huge fan of MSH, I generally prefer the Advanced Set, but nothing terrible with starting with the Basic set. Especially the 1991 one version which is very crisp and cleaned up, sort of 2.2 set of the rules.

One thing to remember is to let go of things being impossible, and just have fun.


I've seen people recommend some of my favorite X-men books, very good things to read, I also strongly recommend the Essentials of X-men and Spider-man. The former includes re-prints of the various important story arcs, including the Dark Phoenix Saga, but it also gives you and idea of where a team can go. Spider-Man on the other hand while not a team book, is where a lot of the most common tropes are laid bare and used.

 Power stunts particularly are a common thing you see him come up with to over come a foe.


The game you choose is in the end up to you, but I strongly recommend one that has fairly fast rules, as superheroes are snappy, speedy in reading and the same usually goes for game play.

My favorites (that I didn't write.) MSH, Icons, Truth & Justice, and the Marvel Saga game. While a friend of mine ran a Necessary Evil game, he used Hearts & Souls (despite wanting to try out the lower powered SW version of supers.)

I strongly encourage you to also pick a game and make it your own. Help your players get involved into making the world. Make it "theirs" as well.

Even if you use MSH and the Marvel U, pick a corner and personalize it.

Quote from: Novastar;574784The problem I generally run into with point-buy systems is inevitably there's someone who's far better than anyone else at "milking" the system (due to having more books, more experience, or just being that rules lawyer type), and the complaint of "balance" rears it's head again.

That, and with my HERO GM, we never could agree on building the same power (say Spider-man's webshooters) the same way. Not once.

Play Palladium/Heroes Unlimited.  Balance has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.  

JG

Quote from: Soylent Green;574769That's uncanny. I mentioned up thread that I too had concerns about running a supers campaign which folks on this forum eased me through. Now is time to reveal that I too was sitting on a unplayed copy of MSH Basic Revisited from way back when it was in print and that's the system I decided to go with.


And it was sensational. My best campaign ever. I go on about quite a bit here: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=15446  but it's enough to say my players dubbed it the best campaign of the last 10 years.

I have since moved on to ICONS as supers system of choice. It is very similar to MSH, it's just a little more polished, but that in no way detracts from MSH. It's truly an excellent game, way ahead of its times.

Man that thread (along with this one: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13555 ) has done a lot to help and inspire me. Thanks!

Now I just gotta sell my players on MSH...

This is a really fun thread.  Thanks for all the contributions!

I got a jones for playing a supers game again after seeing The Avengers back in May.  Unfortunately, I have no chance to do so anytime soon, but I'm still fooling with ideas like a good gamer does.

Three great sources of inspiration that I have been using:
1) Contemporary supers cartoons.  Some are definitely better than others, but I find them helpful.
2) DK Publishing's superhero books (both Marvel and DC).  I've been picking these up and I can't believe what an idea goldmine they have been.
3) Marvel's Digital Comics Unlimited.  For about 4 bucks a month, I can read as many old comics as I want.  Personally, I've been getting a lot from Bendis' writing, but I know that comic writers are a serious YMMV category.

On a note about something upthread, the notion of "classes" in supers archetypes, the Marvel and DC Encyclopedias from DK suggest there is ONE, maybe two, archetypes with a collection of other types floating around it.  The first reads something like "he or she can fly, has super strength, shoots blasts of energy, and is resistant to damage."  A close second: "He or she is an excellent athlete, with great skill in hand-to-hand combat."

Quote from: drkrash;5754981) Contemporary supers cartoons.  Some are definitely better than others, but I find them helpful.

I never tire of saying just how good some of the recent and current superhero series have become. Live action supers movies have come a long way from the bad old days, but some of the animated stuff is just awesome    with top rate voice talent, intelligent plots and great characterisations.

Quote3) Marvel's Digital Comics Unlimited.  For about 4 bucks a month, I can read as many old comics as I want.  Personally, I've been getting a lot from Bendis' writing, but I know that comic writers are a serious YMMV category.

Yeah I discovered Marvel Digital too. The amount of choice is intimidating, but it has allowed me indulge is some nostalgia trip as well as sort of catch up with the more recent stuff like revamped Guardians of the Galaxy and discover the charm and wit of Paul Tobin.

Indeed! The recent cartoons (Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes, Spectacular Spider-man) were awesome. Before those were Batman: TAS/Batman Beyond/Justice League/Superman cartoons by Timm)

Quote from: James Gillen;575081Play Palladium/Heroes Unlimited.  Balance has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.  

LOL. Played it, gamed it, made a Demo game (link) for my fellow Megaversal Ambassadors.

Palladium (especially HU2) makes guns too attractive, for my liking.

Quote from: Novastar;575585LOL. Played it, gamed it, made a Demo game (link) for my fellow Megaversal Ambassadors.

Palladium (especially HU2) makes guns too attractive, for my liking.

I hear you, and I know where you're coming from, so don't take this as me gainsaying you when I say that Palladium's native modelling of firearms leaves me cold.  Crafty Games's Spycraft builds upon the example that Palladium established, and not just for firearms, and makes for a playable improvement in terms of fidelity and playability in terms of verisimlitude.  If I were to build a new superhero RPG, I'd build it on the Spycraft/Fantasycraft skeleton (since, as it is, you can do "Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D." and take on Hydra, as well as do Bond, Batman and a lot of others about that tier of power) and then carefully build up to Superman and greater levels of power.

That said, Heroes Unlimited--for those friendly to tinkering--gets you most of the way to such a goal out of the box.  Mix Ninjas & Superspies as well as T.M.N.T. & Other Strangeness/After The Bomb, and you're in for a fun time.

Quote from: Kaz;574083A team of super-heroes seems like the perfect construct for some RPing. The whole team concept for the group to be together in the first place. A reason to come up with memorable villains. It seems like a great way to deal with a musical chairs group. (Alphaman is dealing with an extraplanar threat so is too busy to take part in tonight's adventure!) I'm sure there are hundreds of other reasons that supers rpg are the tits.

And I would love to get deep into some, but whenever I really consider it, I come up short with how to go about running a campaign. Maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle. Maybe I'm looking at it through a D&D lens or something.

How do you run your supers RPGs? What does a typical session look like for you? How do you keep the concept "fresh"? Do you handwave the secret identity stuff or make it a major cog in the machine?

I've run only two supers RPG campaigns: the Legion campaign (which lasted over six years of fortnightly-play) and the Golden Age campaign (still ongoing about a year into it now).

The typical session starts out with players doing stuff related to their private identities, things they've been working on over time, individual crimefighting, etc; plus they catch up on changes in world events and such, sometimes new characters are introduced.

Then some central problem or menace comes along, that they have to deal with as a group; some game sessions have been investigative, some have been slugfests, some street-level and a few matters of national or even worldwide menace. Its good to mix it up.

I make no attempt to keep things "fresh" in the sense of trying to break the boundaries of the genre, on the contrary: in the legion campaign, it was legion themes, in the golden age campaign its golden age themes, in both cases often ripped directly from the relevant comic titles.  What I have done in both cases is played out long-term evolution of the characters, their world, the NPCs around them; the "in-game" timeline of the Legion campaign spanned 30 years.  In the Golden Age, they've played out 3 years so far.  And of course the characters matured and evolved, developed relationships, allies, foes, etc, and the nature of the missions and concerns evolve.  For example, the golden age campaign began when no one had been a "mystery man" for more than about a year, everyone was new at it, figuring out what to do.  The villains were mostly mobsters or criminals of that ilk.  Over time, things grew: the PCs formed the first super-hero group, more masked men started to show up, some with really wild powers; and other groups (like the Big 3, or later the JSA).   They went from fighting mostly gangsters to fighting evil superscientists and their minions, alien wizards, and now the first costumed supervillains have started to pop up.  And of course, world events have moved along; World War II started, and the Germans have their own Ubermenschen; the US still isn't in the war but everyone can see it coming.  The whole hero game evolved from something for awkward dilettantes and hobbyists to very serious business in a very short time, and the PCs evolved from guys who didn't really know what they were and what they were doing into clear paragons of the American Dream, and the foremost heroes of New York.

One hint: use a gigantic cast of NPCs; even if its just cameo appearances.  

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;575688I've run only two supers RPG campaigns: the Legion campaign (which lasted over six years of fortnightly-play) and the Golden Age campaign (still ongoing about a year into it now).
<...snip>

f the American Dream, and the foremost heroes of New York.

One hint: use a gigantic cast of NPCs; even if its just cameo appearances.  

RPGPundit

I find this intertesting because its atypical of all my games. Seemingly more akin to a pendragon idea. By this I mean time passes quickly. In our games the campaign is full on real time basically there is no down time events unfurl PCs do stuiff it keeps on going. When the campaign ends we typcially do something else and then maybe return to the campaign a year later, maybe more and set some time passes stuff but we never do that in play.
When you say a session usually starts ... its seems as though you are able to tidy up each session in an episodic fashion, again we typically end on a cliffhanger whcih rolls into the next.

Now to be fair we have nver run a secusess supers campaign perhaps the genre lends itself more to that episodic approach, but I ran James Bond witht eh same cast of PCs for about 5 years ducking in and out over about 4 solid campaigns as well as pick ups and we didn't get that episodic feel to that either.

Quote from: RPGPundit;575688One hint: use a gigantic cast of NPCs; even if its just cameo appearances.  

Can you elaborate on this?

Quote from: Kaz;575723Can you elaborate on this?

One thing that adds a powerful sense of connection to the game is if you create the sense of a very busy and real world.  In my legion campaign, I had the legion of superheroes of course (which are like 40 heroes right there) and a shitload of associated characters, allies, science police, politicians, scientists, family members, and of course villains. It makes the characters feel connected to a real and changing world.

In the Golden Age campaign, there's all the new masked men popping up, some of whom the PCs have so far only read about in the papers and others that they end up meeting.  Its much cooler if they meet Dr. Mid-nite or Zatarra after having heard of them already, rather than out of the blue; or if they hear about what the JSA is doing and compare it to their own team's exploits.  Plus each PC has their own personal contacts: one of them (Lady Lightning) works closely with NYPD chief Valentine, has a boyfriend (her boss at the forensic lab), and has made a contact in the form of a hardnosed private eye named Slam Bradley. Another (The Patriot) works at the OSS (a government anti-spy agency), and has a boss there, as well as chatting it up with the secretary.  Another (The Fireman) is connected to the NYFD and has made contacts with a number of hobos living in Central Park.  Yet another (Prometheus) owns a newspaper in his secret identity and has made connections with the paper's editor and reporters.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jibbajibba;575713I find this intertesting because its atypical of all my games. Seemingly more akin to a pendragon idea. By this I mean time passes quickly. In our games the campaign is full on real time basically there is no down time events unfurl PCs do stuiff it keeps on going. When the campaign ends we typcially do something else and then maybe return to the campaign a year later, maybe more and set some time passes stuff but we never do that in play.
When you say a session usually starts ... its seems as though you are able to tidy up each session in an episodic fashion, again we typically end on a cliffhanger whcih rolls into the next.

Now to be fair we have nver run a secusess supers campaign perhaps the genre lends itself more to that episodic approach, but I ran James Bond witht eh same cast of PCs for about 5 years ducking in and out over about 4 solid campaigns as well as pick ups and we didn't get that episodic feel to that either.

Yes, my game tends to be episodic; like comics are.  Sometimes a game might run into two or three sessions, and sometimes there are events that span into another episode. This format works very well with the comics genre.

RPGPundit