I used it to extend MERP and ran a campaign that paralleled The Hobbit. Thorin hires the party as a kind of back up plan to try to kill Smaug. What was really different was that the party fluctuated between 10-12 players. Each player had a selection of the charts, I utilized players to help facilitate the rolls.

I played a lot of RM in the late 90s, early 2000s. They were mostly set in Middle Earth, but also some adventures in a homebrew setting, depending on the GM.

I ran Arms Law when it came out as a drop in replacement for my groups AD&D campaign. I enjoyed the combat but grew to dislike the constant page turning and chart references. My player grew to hate being on the receiving end of criticals. Then we moved on to C&S.

As a player, it provided one of my favorite memories of a character dying. I played a knight. He was brash and bold. He charged an ice dragon to give the rest of the party a chance to get to cover. He caught an ice blast full on and failed all his saves. Instant ice sculpture. He broke into a million shards after he fell over. The party wisely ran away.

I started with BECMI, then got TMNT, Robotech, and MERP shortly thereafter. All the references to "Rolemaster" in the MERP rules were mostly ignored because I had never seen the books, but I really liked MERP and played it quite a bit. We also played a lot of Palladium FRP in there, too. Essentially just a giant mishmash of all those games at once. Oh, you want a mutant ocelot piloting a veritech fighter in Middle-Earth? Sure, why not. The wonders of not giving a fuck and having fun.

A few years pass and I got the original Arms Law in a giant box of AD&D stuff from the thrift store one summer after mowing tons of lawns when I was in high school. We immediately moved from all those other games to AD&D after this and Arms Law was the combat system of choice after we figured it out. It took me about another 6 months to realize "Rolemaster" was basically Arms Law and and a few other books. Then I decided to buy the 2nd edition set and promptly used it to run the most brutal MERP campaign in existence.

Also, original RM is fun, RMSS is not. I do not particularly care for how they added so many additional skills and changed stuff that worked fine.

Quote from: Brad on May 01, 2025, 09:36:13 AMAlso, original RM is fun, RMSS is not.

I also prefer original RM over RMSS.

Anyone tried the latest iteration of RM, "Rolemaster Unified"? The cover art on the RMU books looks like crap (especially compared to Angus McBride), but I don't know anything about what they did with the actual system.

Greetings!

Rolemaster! *Laughing* Yeah, I am still very fond of Rolemaster. I DM'd and played using Rolemaster for many years, back in the day. Original Rolemaster, and then the RMSS. I gradually left Rolemaster back when 3E D&D first came out. Monte Cook used to work for I.C.E which he did for many years as a developer and writer. That was also something I became excited about seeing Monte Cook in charge at D&D 3E. I was very familiar with all of his writing and development with Rolemaster.

Rolemaster is an excellent game--I would say probably the most detailed, complex, customizable and modular RPG ever made. It really is a fantastic game! However, it essentially has many of the same deep flaws that 3E D&D has. Consulting charts, rules for everything--often discussed and spread over several rules sections or companions, extremely powerful characters, and all of which--because there is so much gorgeous detail and options everywhere--very time consuming to roll up Player Characters and NPC's alike. Crafting a multi-level, uber badass dungeon? That's going to take quite awhile for a DM. And on and on. Rolemaster is fantastic, but it really is *a lot* to have to work with, consult, and deal with constantly for the DM. Eventually, 3E D&D of course eventually developed some of the very same flaws that are imbedded within Rolemaster.

Yes, there are occasions where I certainly miss Rolemaster, but on the whole, I have also gradually become much more "Rules Light" over the years. Like a friend once told me, "No matter what, every aspect of detail you add to a game will always increase the complexity and time involvement." I have seen that dynamic with Rolemaster, 3E D&D, and also 5E D&D. I love options and detail, but I love speed, accessibility, and simplicity even more.

I liked RMSS. I thought it was pretty good system-wise, as they also tried to reorganize the rules and such, which I thought they were on the right track with. Still though, RMSS is still Rolemaster, and still embraces the same flaws as Rolemaster, but somewhat to a lesser degree. I haven't checked out whatever new "Rolemaster" system, because I.C.E. went bankrupt, and Rolemaster died. Any new stand-in game designed by whoever is well, I would just be suspicious of. Beyond that, it is largely irrelevant anyways. The game world has moved on, and gamers and DM's have also moved on. As mentioned previously, I am much more "Rules Light" now, than I was, 35 years ago.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Brad on May 01, 2025, 09:36:13 AMAlso, original RM is fun, RMSS is not.

I have sometimes been surprised at how many people actually like RMSS, but even some of those call it "fiddly". I never got around to playing RMSS as such, but when I read through it my impression was that the old RM is much easier to simplify without breaking the system (provided you have a bit experience with it), compared to all the "fiddly" bits of RMSS. I may be wrong here, so I'll probably take a closer look ar RMSS again in the future.

As RMSS biggest fan, I do see a couple major issues. 

Training packages are a wonderful thing, almost a lifepath system, especially in SPAM but they mess up the level system a bit.  If you stack too many you should probably level up, XP equal to any discount or something but when you level up, you get nothing more because you already got it.  Another flaw here, particular to Black Ops, there shouldn't be a Special Forces Training Package because there are no first level Special Forces Soldiers.  I feel the same way about High Elves, not a race, a 20th level elf at minimum.

The skill system should have been set up to make it possible to play with just categories, just skills, or skills and categories.  Much as I love the skill category system, I think it's the main point of contention.  If I'd been in charge of a new edition that would be my big objective.

I worked on the committee for the new system for the first year.  I eventually flamed out.  Personally, it's good to have a vision for a project but it wasn't one I could go along with.  The key goals were to rationalize the system, eliminating dead spots in spell lists and improving some of the weaker classes, they also wanted to restructure the attack tables to make them more uniform and scalable.  Essentially large and small creatures have always been a bit of a cludge. (but fear the Tiny critical table my friends squirrels and the like are raging balls of death)  At one point the intent was to have 600 attack tables in an app.  I haven't followed things close enough to know where it landed. 

The main motivation for a new system is ownership of IP going forward as this has been an issue since the bankruptcy.

Quote from: David Johansen on May 01, 2025, 07:02:24 PMAs RMSS biggest fan, I do see a couple major issues. 

Training packages are a wonderful thing, almost a lifepath system, especially in SPAM but they mess up the level system a bit.  If you stack too many you should probably level up, XP equal to any discount or something but when you level up, you get nothing more because you already got it.  Another flaw here, particular to Black Ops, there shouldn't be a Special Forces Training Package because there are no first level Special Forces Soldiers.  I feel the same way about High Elves, not a race, a 20th level elf at minimum.

The skill system should have been set up to make it possible to play with just categories, just skills, or skills and categories.  Much as I love the skill category system, I think it's the main point of contention.  If I'd been in charge of a new edition that would be my big objective.

I worked on the committee for the new system for the first year.  I eventually flamed out.  Personally, it's good to have a vision for a project but it wasn't one I could go along with.  The key goals were to rationalize the system, eliminating dead spots in spell lists and improving some of the weaker classes, they also wanted to restructure the attack tables to make them more uniform and scalable.  Essentially large and small creatures have always been a bit of a cludge. (but fear the Tiny critical table my friends squirrels and the like are raging balls of death)  At one point the intent was to have 600 attack tables in an app.  I haven't followed things close enough to know where it landed. 

The main motivation for a new system is ownership of IP going forward as this has been an issue since the bankruptcy.

Interesting. By "play with just categories" does that mean that you want to just roll against skill category instead of specialized skill every time? I often feel like handling each individual skill in the older (1980s) system as a bit of a broader category (e.g. the way "seduction" can be used in different contexts, the jumping skill can be used as a general acrobatics skill, more than just literal jumping).

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on May 01, 2025, 12:10:29 PM

Quote from: Brad on May 01, 2025, 09:36:13 AMAlso, original RM is fun, RMSS is not.

I also prefer original RM over RMSS.

I've had the impression before now this comes down to what you started with, rather than holding true for people who started with RMSS and worked backwards. But, small sample size, and you can tell me if I'm wrong.

If you don't like RMSS it does make plain the case for a Rolemaster lite, but really that was MERP all along.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on May 01, 2025, 12:10:29 PMAnyone tried the latest iteration of RM, "Rolemaster Unified"?

No, and reading about early development didn't sell me off the books I have. What little I saw didn't look bad really, so much as it looked like a solution in search of a problem.

But a new iteration of Rolemaster was always going to be a tough sell. Not only because the hobby has moved on, but because capturing remnant fans of MERP, RM, RMSS, HARP and other spinoffs is a lot do at once. So it always reminded me of the famous xkcd on standards:

My own feeling is that HARP should have been the foundation of a new Rolemaster.  I'm not really fond of HARP but at the time ICE was just out of bankruptcy, under new ownership, and struggling with a massive IP dispersal issue as the rights for supplements and art went back to the creators and any reference to Middle Earth became grounds for legal action.

As much as people had just bought into RMFrp (RMSS repackaged) and SPAM.  As much as product in the pipeline provided much needed immediate revenue.  As much as anything ICE did would have been divisive.  I really think they needed to lay a foundation for something they could call their own and build on that.  I've always felt splitting the fanbase three ways was a mistake.  Also, the art on HARP was much better than what's in RMU.

As for success, it's a "platinum best seller" on drivethru, whatever that means.  I was shocked just now to see myself listed in the authorial credits.  All I ever contributed was disention.  That or maybe that New York Dolls guy was involved before he died.

Quote from: David Johansen on May 01, 2025, 09:51:56 PMMy own feeling is that HARP should have been the foundation of a new Rolemaster.  I'm not really fond of HARP but at the time ICE was just out of bankruptcy, under new ownership, and struggling with a massive IP dispersal issue as the rights for supplements and art went back to the creators and any reference to Middle Earth became grounds for legal action.

As much as people had just bought into RMFrp (RMSS repackaged) and SPAM.  As much as product in the pipeline provided much needed immediate revenue.  As much as anything ICE did would have been divisive.  I really think they needed to lay a foundation for something they could call their own and build on that.  I've always felt splitting the fanbase three ways was a mistake.  Also, the art on HARP was much better than what's in RMU.

As for success, it's a "platinum best seller" on drivethru, whatever that means.  I was shocked just now to see myself listed in the authorial credits.  All I ever contributed was disention.  That or maybe that New York Dolls guy was involved before he died.

To the art point: I have to admit I'm a sucker for good RPG art (particularly by Angus McBride and a few others). Good art makes my mind spin with ideas. The new unified system I have problems even looking at.

There's a whole features verses bugs discussion that could be had about mechanics.  The project lead had a huge issue with the snap/deliberate action system because a person could pick a lock in the snap phase and then do nothing the rest of the round.  Of course, lock picking is a multiround action so it can't be done in the snap action phase but anyhow.  Similarly there was a huge resistance to the idea that size makes things harder and easier to hit and doesn't impacts speed.  Anyhow, there are things I got frusterated with.  I initially declined a position on the project because I'd largely given up on ICE and RM.  I wasn't exactly in a good place to be debating it.

As for art, it's hard to please everyone.  I personally prefer clunky black and white hand drawn art to digitally coloured and modified stuff.  I like that RMSS looks likes something from the mid eighties.

Quote from: David Johansen on May 02, 2025, 02:24:02 PMThere's a whole features verses bugs discussion that could be had about mechanics.  The project lead had a huge issue with the snap/deliberate action system because a person could pick a lock in the snap phase and then do nothing the rest of the round.  Of course, lock picking is a multiround action so it can't be done in the snap action phase but anyhow.  Similarly there was a huge resistance to the idea that size makes things harder and easier to hit and doesn't impacts speed.  Anyhow, there are things I got frusterated with.  I initially declined a position on the project because I'd largely given up on ICE and RM.  I wasn't exactly in a good place to be debating it.

As for art, it's hard to please everyone.  I personally prefer clunky black and white hand drawn art to digitally coloured and modified stuff.  I like that RMSS looks likes something from the mid eighties.

I just saw a video of someone reviewing 1st ed Pendragon, and stating something like "well the art clearly is not up the standards of today". Call me old-fashioned but WTF? (some old books do have shitty art of course, but not that one)

A lot of modern rpg art looks dull, canned, and dare I say autotuned.

I can't stand the Mongoose Traveller art.  Give me Dave Dietrik and William Keith any day.