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What did Cyberpunk 2020 want to really model? And Shadowrun is NOT Cyberpunk.

Started by ArrozConLeche, April 22, 2015, 02:33:13 PM

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crkrueger

#270
March 02, 2016, 12:38:10 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882799I"m willing to accept this, sure. But you also have to accept that there is still a slight, though apparently decreasing, possibility that one day strong AI might beat a turing test before you ever see someone shooting fireballs or hadokens through the air because "Life Energy duuude!"

Extrapolate from Scientific principles doesn't mean "extrapolate from scientific principles I choose personally and subjectively as more likely to happen."

I think I have about the same chance to see someone channel energy to set someone on fire as I do to witness two AIs transcend and travel to Alpha Centauri or for another AI to inhabit a nanotech body, or for actual FTL to exist.

As far as seeing a Physical Adept investing Essence into Body so that they can actually resist blades cutting their flesh - I've already seen that.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

ArrozConLeche

#271
March 02, 2016, 12:44:32 PM Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:10:26 PM by ArrozConLeche
Quote from: CRKrueger;882801Extrapolate from Scientific principles doesn't mean "extrapolate from scientific principles I choose personally and subjectively as more likely to happen."

I think I have about the same chance to see someone channel energy to set someone on fire as I do to witness two AIs transcend and travel to Alpha Centauri or for another AI to inhabit a nanotech body, or for actual FTL to exist.

When better scientific minds than mine, and I wager yours, do see a possibility, however remote, I'm not beyond giving it a benefit of the doubt. When those scientific minds give any credence to chi/prana as energies that might let us shoot fireballs and hadokens through our hands, I'll give that the benefit of the doubt.

QuoteAs far as seeing a Physical Adept investing Essence into Body so that they can actually resist blades cutting their flesh - I've already seen that.

Yeah, I saw that on TV when David Carradine was doing Kung Fu. Have yet to see any single documented case of that actually happening outside movies and legends that did not involve quackery.

Anyway, nice to know you not only believe in 'woo' but also bullshido. :)


http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2007/10/01/martial-idiocy/

JesterRaiin

#272
March 02, 2016, 12:54:36 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882799I"m willing to accept this, sure. But you also have to accept that there is still a slight, though apparently decreasing, possibility that one day strong AI might beat a turing test before you ever see someone shooting fireballs or hadokens through the air because "Life Energy duuude!"

I'm a GM. I reject no idea or a possibility. :)

btw...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

;)
"If it\'s not appearing, it\'s not a real message." ~ Brett

ArrozConLeche

#273
March 02, 2016, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: JesterRaiin;882809I'm a GM. I reject no idea or a possibility. :)

btw...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

;)

I kinda feel bad for the dude...something happy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73Y9oYXQrE

JesterRaiin

#274
March 02, 2016, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882810I kinda feel bad for the dude...something happy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73Y9oYXQrE

..

Dem some friggin' brütal moves. :eek:
"If it\'s not appearing, it\'s not a real message." ~ Brett

crkrueger

#275
March 02, 2016, 01:42:46 PM
Once we get to the point of Chimpanzees flinging shit at the walls, it's probably time to call it a waste of time.  I'll head out before we get to MMA fighters and Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. ;)
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

ArrozConLeche

#276
March 02, 2016, 02:10:21 PM
It became a waste of time as soon as someone tried to prove that 'woo' and bullshido are actually real life phenomena.

I'll be waiting for that scientific paper measuring mana and how much heat a hadoken generates. :rotfl:

crkrueger

#277
March 02, 2016, 02:18:12 PM
Wow, so you're saying Yoga and Qigong can turn Genes on and off through absolutely no mechanism whatsoever?

You DO believe in magic!

Where's that AI now?  Oh yeah, I have to spin up my FTL drive to get there because it went to Alpha Centauri to live with the alien AIs.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

ArrozConLeche

#278
March 02, 2016, 02:24:59 PM Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 02:27:39 PM by ArrozConLeche
Quote from: CRKrueger;882823Wow, so you're saying Yoga and Qigong can turn Genes on and off through absolutely no mechanism whatsoever?

Oh, so you're not done yet!

You do know that the brain,nervous and system control the body, right? No chi, prana, or abracadabra needed.

QuoteYou DO believe in magic!

I'm not the one defending 'woo', lol.

QuoteWhere's that AI now?  Oh yeah, I have to spin up my FTL drive to get there because it went to Alpha Centauri to live with the alien AIs.

Haha, nice mangling of neuromancer. Woo! Hadoken!

AsenRG

#279
March 02, 2016, 03:00:33 PM
Quote from: JesterRaiin;882796Pardon an intrusion...

Guys, before you'll strangle each other, please remember that there's no precise, universally accepted definition of ruah/mana/prana/chi/ki/qi/the Force. It varies from a system (or more precisely "model of reality") to a system, from a school to school, from a master to master. Sometimes practitioners agree it's one and the same, someone they don't and usually there's more than just a handful of differences. As such, you're both right and wrong at same time - science confirms some elements of certain systems, disproves other ones.

Effectively, you're both arguing about concepts you probably don't understand in precisely same way and you both aren't free of oversimplification and generalizations.

Neither of you can "win" this discussion, or prove his point in such a way it'll be acceptable by the other, I'm afraid.
Quoting it because it was ignored.
Please, guys, go and open a thread if you wish, but that's simply irrelevant here. We know what is being accepted as scientifically possible, some of us know what is possible with autohypnosis, and creating frigging fireballs isn't part of it!
What Do You Do In Tekumel? See examples!
"Life is not fair. If the campaign setting is somewhat like life then the setting also is sometimes not fair." - Bren

ArrozConLeche

#280
March 02, 2016, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;882831Quoting it because it was ignored.
Please, guys, go and open a thread if you wish, but that's simply irrelevant here. We know what is being accepted as scientifically possible, some of us know what is possible with autohypnosis, and creating frigging fireballs isn't part of it!

Well, it is relevant if your intention is to use such a discussion as a springboard for arguing why magic and science are really the same thing, which is what the SR uber-fanatics want to say.  

So you just need to sit back and accept that just like space exploration became a reality, just like the internet became a reality, etc,  elves and magic fireballs may one day become a reality, because tolkienish fantasy and sci-fi have always had comparable predictive power. You just wait... :D

crkrueger

#281
March 02, 2016, 03:15:02 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;882831We know what is being accepted as scientifically possible, some of us know what is possible with autohypnosis, and creating frigging fireballs isn't part of it!

Define Fireball.

It seems like whenever something floats within a certain zone of exterior trappings, all the scientifically impossible things you accept in the genre of science are a difference merely of degree.

When the trappings differ, it "magically" becomes a difference of kind. :D
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

ArrozConLeche

#282
March 02, 2016, 03:19:59 PM Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 03:22:09 PM by ArrozConLeche
What did I tell youse. No wonder some people think Shadowrun isn't sci-fantasy. :teehee:

Omega

#283
March 02, 2016, 03:48:49 PM
And so the beatdown of poor little ArrozConLeche continues.

ArrozConLeche

#284
March 02, 2016, 03:50:26 PM
^ Proving again how Shadowrun fanbois are so prone to Fantasy. ;)
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