This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

What Business Model Should RPGs Adopt?

Started by jeff37923, August 28, 2013, 03:41:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3 ... 8
User actions

jeff37923

August 28, 2013, 03:41:25 PM Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 03:50:03 PM by jeff37923
Quote from: David Johansen;686575Anyhow, my belief is that the rpg industry needs a new business model that doesn't do a new edition just for the sake of sales and avoids the endless boom bust cycle of edition changes.  I will go further and suggest that D&D held the top spot for over 30 years without becoming something other than D&D and probably would have held that spot indefinately had it not gone off the rails chasing daisies.

Quote from: LordVreeg;686589hard type of business model to create.  Hell of a discussion there alone.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;686596As long as the customer base needs to have the industry do most of their imagining for them, that business model is DOA.

The current popular trend is to play whatever shit game is receiving the best ongoing support.
Quote from: Piestrio;686598The problem is that game companies are mostly mono-game enterprises.

Roleplaying games should be one element in a bouquet of profitable products.

Hasbro doesn't depend on Monopoly alone for all their revenue and they shouldn't.

WOTC is doing something very smart with the D&D board games, video games, etc...

They need a really good card game next.

Then there isn't the need for the rpg to make huge profits. It just has to reasonable contribute to the bottom line.


For myself, I would be happy to see most of the industry just die already and let the dedicated hobby fans create their own stuff and either sell the PDFs or do limited print runs via Lulu. Treat RPG material like dojinshi in Japan and have most of it be fan-created, with someof the fans becomming risen stars of greater acclaim. Hell, it is what appears to be happening now regardless. Let the Big RPG Industry die and be replaced by the smaller RPG cottage industry.
"Meh."

The Traveller

#1
August 28, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;686600Let the Big RPG Industry die and be replaced by the smaller RPG cottage industry.
We're already there, even the bigger names are just cottage industries in the wider world. And with POD anyone can publish anything without needing an actual publisher, there's nothing stopping hobbyists doing what they like.

Merging the two (fan made and 'professional') is a direction that could be taken. Have fans collaborate on work, send it in or publish it, then have larger operations take the best and profit share. It would need some good faith on both sides though.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

JRT

#2
August 28, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
What I've never understood is why people want the industry to die.  It's like instead of saying "I don't like this stuff, so I won't buy it", it's akin to "I don't like this stuff, so I want it to go away completely, because I can't stand other people liking what I don't like."  I don't like most movies lately, but I don't want Hollywood to die, for instance.

Do people think the lack of major publishers will improve anything?  All that will end up doing is accelerating the hobby's decline.
Just some background on myself

http://www.clashofechoes.com/jrt-interview/

Ladybird

#3
August 28, 2013, 04:02:30 PM Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 04:04:52 PM by Ladybird
Quote from: jeff37923;686600For myself, I would be happy to see most of the industry just die already and let the dedicated hobby fans create their own stuff and either sell the PDFs or do limited print runs via Lulu. Treat RPG material like dojinshi in Japan and have most of it be fan-created, with someof the fans becomming risen stars of greater acclaim. Hell, it is what appears to be happening now regardless. Let the Big RPG Industry die and be replaced by the smaller RPG cottage industry.

Which is fine, but then you lose visibility in the market, without large properties to latch onto (D&D, Warhammer, Cthulhu...). Now, people are always going to roleplay, but fan communities don't need to spend money on books and dice to do that and are small enough to stay under the IP lawyer's radar...

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have more Crawford than Mearls, but the D&D brand name still counts for a lot more than solid design work, when it comes to first impressions.

The hideous secret of the RPG industry is that it sells nothing that you actually need... and even if you do buy something, you can get a huge amount of mileage out of it and never need to buy anything else. It's just too much good value.
one two FUCK YOU

Sacrificial Lamb

#4
August 28, 2013, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: JRT;686608What I've never understood is why people want the industry to die.  It's like instead of saying "I don't like this stuff, so I won't buy it", it's akin to "I don't like this stuff, so I want it to go away completely, because I can't stand other people liking what I don't like."  I don't like most movies lately, but I don't want Hollywood to die, for instance.

Do people think the lack of major publishers will improve anything?  All that will end up doing is accelerating the hobby's decline.

I don't understand that either. It's nice having an industry, even if there are products that I don't particularly like. I don't want to get in the way of other people having fun.

robiswrong

#5
August 28, 2013, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: JRT;686608What I've never understood is why people want the industry to die.  It's like instead of saying "I don't like this stuff, so I won't buy it", it's akin to "I don't like this stuff, so I want it to go away completely, because I can't stand other people liking what I don't like."  I don't like most movies lately, but I don't want Hollywood to die, for instance.

Do people think the lack of major publishers will improve anything?  All that will end up doing is accelerating the hobby's decline.

The only reason you'd cheer for the death of major publishers is (and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here) if you think that the decisions they make in regards to the game, due to what you want in games, are actively harmful to the hobby.

That's a position I hold to a *certain* extent.  I think monetization of power is a terrible influence on the hobby, and I think that linear "adventure paths" are also a bad influence on the hobby.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say "I hope they go out of business".

jeff37923

#6
August 28, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: JRT;686608What I've never understood is why people want the industry to die.  It's like instead of saying "I don't like this stuff, so I won't buy it", it's akin to "I don't like this stuff, so I want it to go away completely, because I can't stand other people liking what I don't like."  I don't like most movies lately, but I don't want Hollywood to die, for instance.


No, it isn't that personal to me. I just do not think that the industry is really needed anymore outside of large events like conventions.

Quote from: JRT;686608Do people think the lack of major publishers will improve anything?  All that will end up doing is accelerating the hobby's decline.

So how about instead of a top down profit motivated splatbook mill, there is a bottom up grassroots hobby demonstration movement? I don't see the industry advocating that even though there is a lot of activity by do-it-yourself types.
"Meh."

jeff37923

#7
August 28, 2013, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: Ladybird;686609Which is fine, but then you lose visibility in the market.

I hate to break this to you, but we have already lost visibility in the market.
"Meh."

jeff37923

#8
August 28, 2013, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: robiswrong;686618The only reason you'd cheer for the death of major publishers is (and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here) if you think that the decisions they make in regards to the game, due to what you want in games, are actively harmful to the hobby.

That's a position I hold to a *certain* extent.  I think monetization of power is a terrible influence on the hobby, and I think that linear "adventure paths" are also a bad influence on the hobby.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say "I hope they go out of business".

Case in point here. FFG's version of Star Wars RPG. I would consider its design exclusionary of the hobby based on its task resolution system and their relience on gimmick dice. Harder to grow the hobby with that high profile entertainment property married to a crap game.
"Meh."

ggroy

#9
August 28, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
As long as there's enough compulsive collectors regularly buying rpg books, there will be an rpg industry.  Even if such compulsive collectors do not even use their books in any rpg games.

TristramEvans

#10
August 28, 2013, 04:28:57 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;686600For myself, I would be happy to see most of the industry just die already and let the dedicated hobby fans create their own stuff and either sell the PDFs or do limited print runs via Lulu. Treat RPG material like dojinshi in Japan and have most of it be fan-created, with someof the fans becomming risen stars of greater acclaim. Hell, it is what appears to be happening now regardless. Let the Big RPG Industry die and be replaced by the smaller RPG cottage industry.

+1000

Been saying that for years.

Emperor Norton

#11
August 28, 2013, 04:30:12 PM
I think the biggest downsides to losing the larger name companies is you are going to lose some big licenses that are good for bringing people into the hobby.

For instance: Star Wars games have brought more of my friends into the RP fold than any other game.

No self-publishing amateur is going to be able to secure a license like that.

Piestrio

#12
August 28, 2013, 04:32:09 PM
From the first thread:

QuoteThe problem is that game companies are mostly mono-game enterprises.

Roleplaying games should be one element in a bouquet of profitable products.

Hasbro doesn't depend on Monopoly alone for all their revenue and they shouldn't.

WOTC is doing something very smart with the D&D board games, video games, etc...

They need a really good card game next.

Then there isn't the need for the rpg to make huge profits. It just has to reasonable contribute to the bottom line.
Disclaimer: I attach no moral weight to the way you choose to pretend to be an elf.

Currently running: The Great Pendragon Campaign & DC Adventures - Timberline
Currently Playing: AD&D

Ladybird

#13
August 28, 2013, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;686623I hate to break this to you, but we have already lost visibility in the market.

Not quite. Don't be so defeatist.

Google "warhammer roleplay", and you'll get an RPG of our kind (Insert pointless week-long "It's an RPG, "It's a board game", "It's a three-layer pepperoni and mushroom pizza" argument here). Google "harry potter roleplay", and you'll get a writing community.
one two FUCK YOU

ggroy

#14
August 28, 2013, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: Emperor Norton;686628For instance: Star Wars games have brought more of my friends into the RP fold than any other game.

No self-publishing amateur is going to be able to secure a license like that.

Wonder how much West End Games was paying for the Star Wars license back in the late 1980's and 1990's.

Or for that matter, how much was FASA paying for the Star Trek license back in the 1980's.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3 ... 8
User actions