LARPers are freaks.

There, I said it.  

A good friend of mine from high school and ex-roommate was heavily involved in IFGS here in Southern California. My direct involvement with LARPs is limited, but we've spent many an hour debating the "theory" behind LARP systems and what their limitations are. My problems with LARPs are as follows:

1) There is no way to differentiate the player from the character physically. You simply cannot feasibly play a character that is stronger, faster, weaker, slower, sexier, more hideous, taller, shorter, fatter, slimmer, etc. than yourself. Sure makeup and costuming can help somewhat...but that's just way too much work.

2) As a corollary to 1, you cannot have a character whose physical skills differ that much from your own. If you suck at hitting people with a padded stick, so does your character. If you naturally aren't very observant, you can't play that eagle-eyed ranger. Yes, there might be a way to design a system that mitigates those things...but at that point you might as well be playing a tabletop game anyway.

3) As another corollary to 1, it is difficult for a character to be more or less socially adept than the player. If you're naturally likable and have a bubbly personality, you might be able to act like a complete bullying jerk - but if you are a bullying jerk, you'll find it difficult to act like Emily Post. Acting skills can mitigate this to a degree, but not everyone is a good actor. Once again, once you put rules in place for this sort of thing you might as well be playing tabletop.

In short for LARP to work well every player needs to be athletic, skilled and a good actor. My guess is those kinds of people have better things to do than put on latex ears and throw beanbags at each other.

Wil- I see those limitations of LARP as a feature, not a bug. There's no reason why a player needs to be all three of the things you listed- athletic, skilled, and a good actor- one of the three would allow them to play in the game. It's like being an actor- certain roles are good for certain actors; no one is good at playing everything. The key is to find the niches that work for you and to run with them.

In the set of rules I've started (as I was procrastinating on my real work), there are no handicaps (in the golf sense) to hold your hand. For example, if you're a sucky fighter, don't play a fighter.  If you're not charismatic, don't try to play a charismatic character. Know yourself, and play what you can.  It's not supposed to make players feel like crap about themselves, it's meant to contribute to everyone's suspension of disbelief. That's my number one priority in the rules- even before physical safety- but only barely.

Quote from: Monster ManuelWil- I see those limitations of LARP as a feature, not a bug. There's no reason why a player needs to be all three of the things you listed- athletic, skilled, and a good actor- one of the three would allow them to play in the game. It's like being an actor- certain roles are good for certain actors; no one is good at playing everything. The key is to find the niches that work for you and to run with them.

In the set of rules I've started (as I was procrastinating on my real work), there are no handicaps (in the golf sense) to hold your hand. For example, if you're a sucky fighter, don't play a fighter.  If you're not charismatic, don't try to play a charismatic character. Know yourself, and play what you can.  It's not supposed to make players feel like crap about themselves, it's meant to contribute to everyone's suspension of disbelief. That's my number one priority in the rules- even before physical safety- but only barely.

They're bugs if the reason you play rpgs is to have a character fundamentally different than yourself. Even CRPGs, for all their limitations, allow an asthmatic that can't bench press more than 40 lbs the ability to play a hulking fighter.

At their heart RPGs are escapism. If a game doesn't allow me to escape from my mundane existence - including my physical, emotional and mental limitations - it's not very good escapism. And cardboard dragons and guys wearing fake teeth don't contribute much to my suspension of disbelief.

Quote from: WilThey're bugs if the reason you play rpgs is to have a character fundamentally different than yourself. Even CRPGs, for all their limitations, allow an asthmatic that can't bench press more than 40 lbs the ability to play a hulking fighter.

That's cool, and that's why we have tabletop. A lot of the reasons people play LARPs involve the ability to really be doinjg what you want your character to do. It's about total immersion. Some games try to get around that, but as you said, they fall flat. Tabletop is a different medium-maybe even a different hobby- from LARP.  You can't expect what's easy in Tabletop to be as easy in LARP. LARP requires some trade offs. Not embracing he limitations of the medium requires what you've said- pretending that almost amounts to tabletop. For example, to fly in a LARP requires pretending, to teleport is a huge hassle, stopping time could become a big pain in the ass to everyone involved, fighting huge creatures are (probably) unworkable, etc, etc, etc.

My opinion is that LARPs would work best if they accepted their limitations, embraced them, and didn't require the participants to stretch their imaginations too much. That means good costumes, makeup, and props, plausible rules, and a genre that isn't too outlandish.

If I do get back into LARPs, I'll adhere to these concepts, and I'll keep my dice on standby for when I want to do something that LARP doesn't let me.

I just think that expecting LARPs to be all things to all people does a disservice to the medium. Sure it's limited, but it has a lot of potential within those limits.

Oh, and one more thing that LARPS need to be good- Acceptance of the limitations of your resources. If you can't have combat-safe animatronics (and who can?) certain monsters are just not workable. Don;t include them in your games. That avoids the cardboard dragon issue you mentioned.

Quote from: Monster Manuelwhat's the general opinion on adventure-styled LARPs like NERO and LIONE, etc, around here?

Have never had the urge to read about them/participate in one.

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonBingo.  Shards was fantastic until too many arseholes started coming

Is that, per chance, affiliated with the excellent (though currently elusive) Shards of the Stone?

Yeah, there are some things that LARPs do really well (visceral sense of place, dozens or hundreds of interacting characters) that tabletop RPGs struggle with. On the other hand, there are lots of things that LARP will never do well (gunfights against 20 foot tall golems made of glass, for example).

It's all a question of picking your medium.

Here's a cheesy, overly dramatic commercial-style spot for the LARPy thing I used to participate in...  I'm even in it - the guy in the brown shirt with the spear.

http://home.insightbb.com/~dwarf74/isucombat.wmv

Here's some more fairly high-quality stuff in a low-quality video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAIrSPURyA&mode=related&search=

-O

I'll say that, based on my experiences in LARP, 95% of it is who you're LARPing with.

If your group is into the drama of it, playing the personalities, suspending disbelief and keeping out-of-game chatter out of game in order to preserve the atmosphere, it's awesome.  Like the crack cocaine version of tabletop gaming.

If your group is petty, interested only in power-playing or smacking people with foam weapons, hogging the spotlight, or are unable to immerse themselves into the game's atmosphere/setting, it sucks on toast.

I played in a Mind's Eye/Vampire LARP once that was filmed for the TV show "Unsolved Mysteries".  There were a lot of people there, people were so-so about being in character, and it was generally okay.  I had fun, but I don't know if I'd do it again with that group.  Robert Stack later said that we were "willing victims," which, if nothing else, made it an experience I can always treasure.

In contrast, my regular LARP group in California - a fantasy/adventure LARP with full-contact baffee combat - is very picky about who they invite to play, because they want to preserve the quality of the game experience.  At first I thought that was unforgivably elitist, but after playing once I realized why they did it.  I became hooked and played with them for years until I had to move out of state.  Some of my best gaming experiences ever have been with that group.

I think it's something you have to participate in before you can completely write it off, in the sense that watching it is nothing like playing it.  Being there in the zone, in the midst of a dramatic scene, everything seems a lot bigger and cooler than standing back and watching it from a distance.  Shooting video of it increases that distance, until it just looks like a bunch of clowns running around in the woods.  YMMV, of course, but my co-LARPers agreed with me on that.  

We used a system the core group created themselves, and I think it worked really well - it had a versatile magic system, a simple hit point/armor point system, and we implemented a skill system while I was with them.  Past that, the general rule was "If you can do it, you can do it."  I personally think that the fewer rules you have, the better the game will be (though I wouldn't advocate a complete lack of rules).  If you have to do rock-paper-scissors, flip a coin, or, Gygax preserve us, roll dice, I figure you may as well just play tabletop.  

And as Wil said, you're not really going to be able to play a character that's drastically different from you, unless you use a lot of makeup and are a phenomenal actor.  Having said that, I've seen some amazing performances, and it's surprising what a little costume change and willing suspension of disbelief can do.  And as Monster Manuel said, that's what tabletop games are for.

It's different from tabletop - I do both, but I miss LARPing terribly.

Quote from: jdrakehIs that, per chance, affiliated with the excellent (though currently elusive) Shards of the Stone?

I don't think so.  If you want to sum up Shards in three words it would be "Napoleonic Feng Shui"

Quote from: mysterycycleI'll say that, based on my experiences in LARP, 95% of it is who you're LARPing with.

This is what makes it so easy for LARP to be terrible.
We've all had tabletop games that have been ruined by one person being an idiot. And that's with only, what, four to six people usually?

The sheer number of players in your average LARP is, basically, an idiot waiting to happen.

Quote from: CaudexThe sheer number of players in your average LARP is, basically, an idiot waiting to happen.

True.  The upside of that is that you don't have to sit at the table with them.  The few times that's happened to me, I usually make a beeline for the other side of the woods.

They're alright, but for me the hobby is not improved by live action, as we swap out cool imagined action for the actuality of a bunch of badly dressed geeks not acting very well.

I prefer to sit down while doing that.

But I don't have any great hate, and there is an occasional larp in the UK which involves political scenarios and scheming and that sounds fun, but mostly for me they're like tabletop but not as fun.