Quote from: The Evil DMAnd yes Doc, the time would have been better spent playing the game. but that was the whole point.

Actually I'm a dirty, dirty hypocrite because I rarely get any gaming done myself.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalQuite... suggesting this is more about the OP grinding an axe and trying to drum up antagonism towards the company than any real desire to discuss things.

While I could see how his post could be read that way, it would be an incorrect interpretation in this particularly case.  The Evil DM is good people and not any sort of shit-stirrer or axe-grinder.

Sounds like another small company that should be going POD . . .

Quote from: J ArcaneSounds like another small company that should be going POD . . .

You have no idea.

While you *can* get decent prices for POD printing, traditional printing is the best way to go assuming you have the money in pocket to do it. You can get a print run of books for about half the price of POD. In the current market you have to be on the conservative side when printing your first book. Since these day most small press guys would be doing well to sell 500 copies of their book in a year, you just cant afford to overestimate your projected sales.  It's better to come up a little short of the demand than it is to over print your book.

If they would have POD (which I doube the did) printed HEX, they would not likely have been able to afford to print second and larger print run. The profit margin with POD is much lower.

All I have to say is it is great to see a small press company have the need to print a second run. It's a guess, but I think they probly printed more of HEX in the first print run than a lot of small press guys normally do.

I can go through Lulu, and print 225-page book for about $8 a piece.  Meaning I can mark it up 200%, still be within acceptable pricing for similar products, and my book will never go out of print.  Personally, I'll probably go for half that markup, just because it's a side bet for me, not a main income source, but really, isn't that the case with most small press stuff anyway?  

Oh, and it's all without any upfront costs except those I wish to add to it, and many of those are comparitively affordable.  

Seems like a sweet enough deal to me.  That's not sometihng any of the other self-publishing houses I've seen can remotely compete with, and I remain baffled why more RPGs don't follow that route.

Quote from: J ArcaneI can go through Lulu, and print 225-page book for about $8 a piece.  Meaning I can mark it up 200%, still be within acceptable pricing for similar products, and my book will never go out of print.  Personally, I'll probably go for half that markup, just because it's a side bet for me, not a main income source, but really, isn't that the case with most small press stuff anyway?  

Oh, and it's all without any upfront costs except those I wish to add to it, and many of those are comparitively affordable.  

Seems like a sweet enough deal to me.  That's not sometihng any of the other self-publishing houses I've seen can remotely compete with, and I remain baffled why more RPGs don't follow that route.

Lulu and the like work well enough if you are selling direct to the customer, but the the distribution chain not so good. If you print 100 copies for sales through your site, that will cost about ~$730 for bw, perfect bound. So about $7/book. You could turn around and sell it for $25 through your site and make $17 on the deal.

If you try the same thing through distro your $25 book sells to distributors for$8-$10 at best. getting you a $1-$3/ book profit.

If you print through traditional printers you can do it for ~$3/book, then price it $25, make about $5-$7/book through distro and also sell through your site and make $22/book.

My numbers may not be exact, but I think they are in the neighborhood.

Not to bash POD printing because it is great if you don't have $3-4k to spend on a print run and for some games direct sales is the best way to go. If you look @ all of the longer lived small press guys (who print their books) they almost all sell through distro.

I see your point on distribution.  Lulu offers some options for regular print distribution, but the problem is they go through traditional bookhouses, while games generally go through specialized distributors.  It'd be freakin' awesome if Lulu and Alliance or somesuch cut a deal.  

For my part though, the only way I can afford to promote my game is online anyway, so I don't feel I'm losing a whole lot by preferring direct sales, or suggesting people order through larger bookstores that can just go by ISBN lookup.

Quote from: J ArcaneI see your point on distribution.  Lulu offers some options for regular print distribution, but the problem is they go through traditional bookhouses, while games generally go through specialized distributors.  It'd be freakin' awesome if Lulu and Alliance or somesuch cut a deal.

Exactly, even though it is nice that Lulu can get your book on B&N, Amazon, or whatever, the bottom line is many time more small press books are sold direct or throug distro. Besides, have you ever tried to find a small press book in amazon? It's a real pain in the ass. Yeah it would be great if some of the gaming distributors worked a deal with Lulu, then it would be a win-win situation.

QuoteFor my part though, the only way I can afford to promote my game is online anyway, so I don't feel I'm losing a whole lot by preferring direct sales, or suggesting people order through larger bookstores that can just go by ISBN lookup.

Yeah, that is where I'm at with mine as well. I looked long and hard @ doing traditional through distribution, but in the end I can't afford to take that risk. I'll put it out in POD and PDF and if it takes off then I'll reconsider my options.