I'm interested in purchasing some Wotc D&D products - like Curse of Strahd -, but I want the original products, not the reprinted ones with wokified content.

Is there somewhere on the net some listing of pre- and post-woke products from WotC ?

I think that anything published before 2020 is safe, but I'm not sure of it.

Curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation were the only "problematic" ones that were purified.  They were fairly minor changes that don't affect too much.  If you're okay with all the random LGBTQ stuff tossed into all their products to collect their Pokemon collection then you'll likely be fine with these ones.

Basically they made the Vistani less "gypsies are bad" and got rid of a lot of the references to "savages" in Chult.  Because you know Servants of Strahd and Cannibals get sad when they are called names.

Thanks for the info.

This is fairly important to me. Since WotC has decide to cater to woke sensibilities, I refuse to support them in this regard, so I won't buy their wokified content.

I find particularly abhorrent the revisionism at play in re-editing past products without making it clear that they're doing so. They don't hide it per se, but they don't go out of their way to inform their would-be buyers either.

QuoteIs there somewhere on the net some listing of pre- and post-woke products from WotC ?

They were always woke, sometimes just not woke-enough

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 19, 2021, 04:55:09 PM

QuoteIs there somewhere on the net some listing of pre- and post-woke products from WotC ?

They were always woke, sometimes just not woke-enough

Not quite. Their early books and modules were lacking in agenda flags other than that paragraph in the PHB which is just Mearls usual ham handed way of saying "you can play any type of character, gender is not an issue." which has been one of D&D and other RPGs sell point for decades. Its just Mearls suffers from chronic foot-n-mouth disease.

But.

After a point various modules I have ALL have tiny little meaningless inserions of something. Curse of Strahd is probably the worst offender. But even that is relatively mild and as have pointed out time and again. Mostly meaningless because the entries have zero backing them up.

Curse of Strahd had a page dedicated to telling you that vampires are "sexual predators" with a hammer over the head. Strahd is now Bi. Theres a completely missable comment that some Vistani's son is dressed as a girl. A male vamp whos one of Strahd's "consorts" and a pair of lesbians tossed in there and also little more than a throwaway comment.

Tomb of Annihilation has one throwaway sentence about a merchant worried about his husband and is completely meaningless. And an evil noble who has a incubus and succubus as consorts.

Essentials has the gnome king who has flipped out and locked up his husband. Again a totally meaningless statement with nothing to back it up.

One of the expansion books, Xanathar maybe? introduces literal "gender fluid" elves if they have a gods blessing and can after a long rest, change gender. This one is iffy on its wokeness since it fits one version of that elven god. But the timing, and its insertion into the Adventurers League rules makes it very suspect.

Those are the ones I have that have things I noticed. None of them are in your face aside from that intro in Strahd and can be ignored, changed, or embellished as you please. There might be others that are more blatant but Have not seen.

Yeah I Right Wing Snowflake over the content sometimes but generally calm down eventually.

Honestly I just tried to sit down and start prep work for Curse of Strahd again and made the mistake of flipping through I6.  The "new" campaign is actually just a SUPER padded out version of I6.  And not even in like a "Extended Version of Lord of the Rings is vastly better than theatrical".  More like in a "take the Hobbit and the Appendices and make 3 movies out of it" (but at least Evangeline Lilly is hot as sin as an elf).

I've run Tomb of Annihilation and that one's really good.  I honestly don't think I said savage once the entire 2 years it took to finish (working folks so playing 1/month at best).  I don't think you would really miss anything as a result of the wokeness.

QuoteAfter a point various modules I have ALL have tiny little meaningless inserions of something. Curse of Strahd is probably the worst offender. But even that is relatively mild and as have pointed out time and again. Mostly meaningless because the entries have zero backing them up.

QuoteAgain a totally meaningless statement with nothing to back it up.

What do you mean exactly by meaningless in this context?

Quote from: Omega on January 19, 2021, 08:37:21 PM

Not quite. Their early books and modules were lacking in agenda flags other than that paragraph in the PHB which is just Mearls usual ham handed way of saying "you can play any type of character, gender is not an issue." which has been one of D&D and other RPGs sell point for decades. Its just Mearls suffers from chronic foot-n-mouth disease.

I actually took that bit as a sign of things to come and it looks like that was correct.  I stopped buying D&D at that point despite having bought just about all the books for all of the previous editions.  Why invest money into the early stage of something I'm probably not going to want to use once I see the rest of it?  So If you want pre-woke, I'd say go back before 5E.

I just perused Tashas's Cauldron of Everything and the silliness of the illustrations are unmistakable - half of them are candy-colored goody two-shoes Tieflings ; all orcs are nice guys (with feelings, you know); there's a female dwarf who looks more like a shorter human than an altogether different species of humanoid, etc.

I won't buy it, and I'm pretty sure I won't buy the following products either.

I'm sure there are plenty of third parties D&D 5.0 edition products which don't hail from the Passive-Agressive Commune of Wokistan.

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 19, 2021, 09:28:17 PM
What do you mean exactly by meaningless in this context?

Meaningless in that they are a single sentence, or less with just about every time not a thing to back it up or give it impact or meaning other than that intro to Curse of Strahd.

Quick example is one of the events in Tomb of Annihilation. Some guy is worried about his husband and will ask or hire the PCs to save him. And thats it. Just a sentence stating this guy is married to a guy. Nothing more. No reasons, it has zero impact on whats going on or even why the guy got in trouble.

Even the gnome kings in Essentials ends up this same sort of meaningless as here too it impacts nothing backs it up.

In every case I saw so far if you swapped genders of one, or both or even species nothing would be effected by it.

Its even worse with one of the entries in Curse of Strahd where its noted the girl you saved is the leaders son. And thats it. Nothing. Nada. I dont even recall if they gave the kid a name.

I could easily see this upcomming wheelchair thing in Candlekeep ending up being one little throwaway sentence like "The assistant at the table is in a wheelchair." and that is it. And maybe one sentence stating "the path down is wheelchair accessible." or somesuch. And nothing to back it up or give it meaning.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer on January 20, 2021, 12:26:15 PM
I just perused Tashas's Cauldron of Everything and the silliness of the illustrations are unmistakable - half of them are candy-colored goody two-shoes Tieflings ; all orcs are nice guys (with feelings, you know); there's a female dwarf who looks more like a shorter human than an altogether different species of humanoid, etc.

I won't buy it, and I'm pretty sure I won't buy the following products either.

I'm sure there are plenty of third parties D&D 5.0 edition products which don't hail from the Passive-Agressive Commune of Wokistan.

Dont forget the nearly white drow in the book.

QuoteI just perused Tashas's Cauldron of Everything and the silliness of the illustrations are unmistakable - half of them are candy-colored goody two-shoes Tieflings ; all orcs are nice guys (with feelings, you know); there's a female dwarf who looks more like a shorter human than an altogether different species of humanoid, etc.

Yes tiefling art mania need to die in flames.

QuoteQuick example is one of the events in Tomb of Annihilation. Some guy is worried about his husband and will ask or hire the PCs to save him. And thats it. Just a sentence stating this guy is married to a guy. Nothing more. No reasons, it has zero impact on whats going on or even why the guy got in trouble.

Ok, but is this quest even described - or is it just proposition of utterly random side-quest that DM had to invent himself?
Because if quest is there - I'd argue - that sure it's woke, but overall it's classic scheme - PCs are hired to save someone by someone's relatives or significant others. Not terribly impressive quest, but well you need someone to hire PCs so...

QuoteIn every case I saw so far if you swapped genders of one, or both or even species nothing would be effected by it.

Well but isn't it true about most of minor cases - change rescued gnomes to rescued halflings and in most cases, nothing changes.
Dunno really I must say - I mean as a Roman Catholic player I do not crave for diversity in this regard really - but also to some extent many minor details are just sort of description of world without much meaning. You have a mission to save father of eight children, but then you cut limit it to three children and nothing meaningful in quest shall change.

I think that's not avoidable - most of quests are skeletons that can be covered with various kinds of meat that will be mostly irrelevant

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 20, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Ok, but is this quest even described - or is it just proposition of utterly random side-quest that DM had to invent himself?
Because if quest is there - I'd argue - that sure it's woke, but overall it's classic scheme - PCs are hired to save someone by someone's relatives or significant others. Not terribly impressive quest, but well you need someone to hire PCs so...

Its one of a 10 paragraph or less in size side quests that can happen at the main port city in Chult. The one in question opens with this. It is I think the only entry like this in the whole book. And is longer that any from Strahd for example.

Quote9. Save an Innocent Man. Belym (LG male Chultan human commoner) is distraught because his husband, Draza (LG male Chultan commoner), has been sentenced to Executioner's Run for stealing. Belym asserts that his husband was a victim of mistaken identity and sentenced without a proper hearing or trial.

The rest of the paragraph is the bare bones of the situation. Authorities arent listening. Guys about to be tossed into an execution run against velociraptors so the PCs better hurry if want to save him and collect 20gp reward.

Thats it. The guy being married to a guy is meaningless. If it was placed there as a deliberate woke agenda plan then it fails totally because it is meaningless.

Quote from: Omega on January 21, 2021, 06:23:18 AM
...........Thats it. The guy being married to a guy is meaningless. If it was placed there as a deliberate woke agenda plan then it fails totally because it is meaningless.

It's not meaningless at all. It is written there, in print and is another small step in the normalisation of woke sensibilities in D&D, it does not matter that it is an easy swap out, the fact is that it is there and being accepted. 
WOTC are not particularly subtle in their pro woke bias, but even they must realise the outcry a full on queer pre-gen character or key NPC would cause amongst the vast majority of their customer base, even though I am sure that is exactly what is intended for the future.
Much better to adopt a slow drip feed of the changes so that each subsequent expansion of the woke content is seen as a very minor issue, an insignificant alteration to the norm, not as a major change of design.

QuoteThats it. The guy being married to a guy is meaningless. If it was placed there as a deliberate woke agenda plan then it fails totally because it is meaningless.

But as I said one of elements of woke agenda is normalisation.
So the fact you can just drop gay marriage in Cthulth like that, without any explanation and background is THEIR WIN.
You seem to assume wokesters care only about BIG MEANINGFUL LGBT STUFF.
No they also care than random unimportant marriage of third-grade NPCs can be gay and it does not raise anyone's brow.

Now TBH considering how utterly hippie (but also kinda more brutal) was original Ed's Faerun I can say this is probably something well within mindset of Greenwood, for bad or worse.