Quote from: Warthur;320379As of last I checked, the response on the FFG website from fans - especially in the actual forum for this edition of the game - seems to be extremely negative.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the FFG stand at Gen Con this year to listen to people express their opinions about the new edition. It'd be interesting to see what sort of balance of pissed off to vaguely interested people they get.

At first blush, it looks like a grab at current wargamers and the MMO gamers money. Shit, if there's a collectable aspect to it, GW might even stock this edition in their stores.

Shiny.

Big box.

Big price.

A bit of me is horrified that i'm now identifying with grognards everywhere, whilst another part is thinking "well done, lets see if this brings in fresh blood." I just have to recognise that i'm stale blood and get over it.

I suppose I can sigh into my grognard beard and wistfully hope that a tide of bad feeling at Gen Con will prompt a hasty rebrand - "Warhammer Descent" has a nice ring to it.

Quote from: Melan;320332I don't see what's the problem. WFRP was really horribly dated and in dire need of a facelift. Nobody I know liked its shitty magic system, its slow and boring leveling, not to mention the useless and pathetic characters you were supposed to play.

Then you know no-one but the ignorant and/or persons with poor taste.

The system is one where heroes are built of ordinary men in extraordinary circumstances.

The 1st ed magic system was good, the second much more potent... but much riskier.

Bullshit!
WFRP was Cthulhu for the Fantasy crowd. NO CONNECTION to the actual source materiél!

What were you calling bullshit, Sett?

Quote from: aramis;320384Then you know no-one but the ignorant and/or persons with poor taste.

Then that makes two of us. The combat mechanics are boring due to the interminable back and forth. The magic mechanics are boring because you almost always end up casting the same spell over and over again. The skill mechanics are boring because of the high whiff factor. The profession system is interesting but extremely impractical in long campaigns - which is what has been almost exclusively published for the game.

Quote from: aramis;320384Then you know no-one but the ignorant and/or persons with poor taste.

The system is one where heroes are built of ordinary men in extraordinary circumstances.

The 1st ed magic system was good, the second much more potent... but much riskier.

Well, this "system" didn't accurately reflect the canonical Warhammer source material at all. Real Warhammer has the Emperor Karl Franz riding around on his awesome griffin steed, it is these two, the knights of Bretonnia questing on behalf of the Lady of the Lake (or an equivalent; I can't exactly recall the names) and big battles between the forces of chaos and the Empire. I mean, Warhammer is this, not some lame-ass no-fun rules like getting gangrene and dying in a brain surgery operation and playing shepherds or milkmen. It takes little effort to realise WFRP was simply a poorly designed game that didn't allow for heroism at all. Even the adventures they released were no fun - in the first one, you had to kill a... dun dun... lawyer, and after that, you were supposed to become merchants on the Empire's rivers. It took until Empire in Flames to start to fix things, but then unfortunately the game got stuck as it was until now. It is high time a company took a good hard look at what makes Warhammer fun, and redesign it according to those principles.

It is really that simple.

Not to mention how much hassle it was to bring a character to a good enough power level. Too much hard work and frustration, too litle reward.

It´s overdue that some holy cows were slaughtered.
The a-historical "carreer" system was one of them.

Quote from: Melan;320396Not to mention how much hassle it was to bring a character to a good enough power level. Too much hard work and frustration, too litle reward.

You speak a big word with lightly. Fuck, for the first ten sessions any roll over 35% is a failure anyway, so why bother at all? There´s no differentiation anyway.

You're just pissed at the bad German puns, Sett. Go on, admit it.

WFRP1 was pretty commensurate with WFB 3

Karl Franz wasn't riding a griffin. The Überhero motif of WFB 5 simply shows the two had grown apart.

On its own merits, WFRP is a good game; tactical combat, skill tells profoundly, and most players can manage to get 45% or more on a 1st round.

But it is also a game that relies on the GM doing his damned job and awarding modifiers as approrpriate to the situation.

The career system has its flaws, but it provides an excellent start for the hero's journey.

Quote from: Settembrini;320397It´s overdue that some holy cows were slaughtered.
The a-historical "carreer" system was one of them.

Well, you're going to be disappointed, because as far as I can tell from the announcement some sort of career system is staying.

Hopefully with better careers, though. I am all right with people if they say "my Inquisitor, Fritz Holstein, used to be a beggar in Nuln before he became a Cavalryman" as a backstory, but let's not incorporate the rat-killing threadmill into the base game. Otherwise the game will be as boring as Simplicissimus (before he becomes a mercenary captain and starts to be a hero and take names, of course - the book really picked up after that).

But it surely won´t be retro-pretentiouss simulationist crap, it will be 100% gamist, and therefore be a HELP rather than the HINDRANCE the old I-read-one-book-on-tudor-england-and-now-know-shit system was.