I finished Thousand Thrones last night. Its the second longest campaign I have run at 34 sessions (effectively 36 given the last session was a triple up). The cmapaign brought everything it needed to a gaming experience with only a little thought or effort on my part. Overall, it was an excellent and successful experience and one that I think I will look back very fondly in the future.

Thousand Thrones is a WFRP2e campaign, one of the last books to be published for the line. Its has a great story, some excellent scenes and bags of style. But it also had its issues. Each chapter was written by a different person. Some chapters were dreadul and linear. A lot of the back story was confusing and didn't make sense, even if you tried. I found out half way through that quite a lot of material was cut from the campaign. Some of this was released by the authors unofficially and it was welcome, though did little to really help bring the book together.

It is similar to most WFRP adventures. It stands out because it felt relatively epic. It had a zero to hero journey in it, where most WFRP campaigns don't (The Enemy Within perhaps withstanding). It also dealt with some elements that I had not dealt with before - Vampires, Elves, Nurgle. It also had a fantastic range of encounter types from dungeons, investigations, intrigue, roleplaying, humour, and horror. Not every session was great but I don't think we had a dud in the 34 sessions of play and we had many more very good sessions that pretty good ones.

As a prewritten campaign, it was story focused. I did make sure that each PC had one hook into the story and we had at least two more develop naturally from play. The finale was particularly satisfying as I feel that all the story strands both global and personal were resolved in a satisfactory way.

The finale was exceptionally brutal but felt like a truly epic finale to the whole affair. I felt that this one left the players feeling that they had to fight to win and just scraped in.

Not really sure what else to say that wouldn't take me forever to write, so I will leave it there with notes on the main modifications I made in case anyone is crazy enough to follow my footsteps. I also posted some thoughts here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?575460-WFRP-My-run-of-Thousand-Thrones-update

I used:
- Spires of Altdorf
- Noblesse Oblige, Dead Ringer, and Rough Night at the Three Feathers
- Thousand Thrones Expansions 1 and 2 on Liber Fanatica
- Night's Dark Masters

Changes made:

1. I added Noblesse Oblige and Dead Ringer to the start of the campaign. Payment from Noblesse Oblige was satisfied by Lady Reiva of Marienburg as a recently widowed Imperial Noble. Her first job, before asking the PCs to investigate Karl was to establish a bailiff in a town her husband oversaw.

2. I combined Spires of Altdorf as the culmination of Brother Groff's plot to chapter 4.

3. I added Rough Night at Three Feathers as an interlude between chapters 4 and 5.

4. Lady Reiva and the Baroness Theodora Margrave have been combined into 1 NPC acted as the PCs' Patron. Her true nature only became apparent at the very end and ultimately she is one of the main NPCs of the entire campaign. beside Chapter 1 and 4, she also turned up in my revised Chapter 6 to advise PCs of the Priory of the Spear and the import of the Power Words in protecting the boy.

5. I had Lady Reiva trick Mad Orlock (who was actually allied with Lord de Trois) into capturing Wilhelm Hollenbach (see Chapter 2).

6. I have a Wood Elf PC who is plagued by visions from the Lament of Lileath and childhood friends to Lorinoc and Coriael.

7. The PCs keep Karl after Chapter 5 for the rest of the campaign, though Black Ice spirited him away in Chapter 8. This required chanegs to Chapter 6 (and partially to Chapter 7).

8. One PC was a widow of a famous Tomb builder and secretly a member of the Priory. He was killed by Lydia von Carstein and his diary included the clues in Chapter 7 that lead the PCs to the Priory. This diary was recovered by Lady Reiva and given to the widow PC at the end of Chapter 4, who knew she would not be able to ally with the Priory direct.

9. I let the PCs kill Mad Orlock, Lord De Trois and Lydia von Carstein on encountering them. This was much better than having them all alive in the already busy climatic fight.

10. After Chapter 5, the PCs encounter the Wood Elves from Chapter 3, who have been chasing Mad Orlock and trying to free Morlaerna. They discover Lord De Trois' tower and the PCs infilitrate it and fight Mad Orlock there. This tower is detailed in Thousand Thrones Expansion 2.

11. Lord De Trois was mad and had a thing for his own apotheosis. He held a Passion Play (from Chapter 6) in Talabheim where the PCs face and destroy him.

12. Chapter 7 is not a red herring but the PCs gaining allies. They earn the Priory's trust by destroying Lydia von Carstein. She has worked out the secret of the power words held in the Triptych. Thousand Thrones Expansion 1 used here to expand the Priory's situation.

13. The Black Witch was Khalida one of the first people to be turned into a vampire by Queen Neferata but as a high priestess of Tzeetch she became something else. She had crawled away and was cursed to exist near the chaos gate in Kislev. She wanted to escape after thousadns of years and needed the blood of the 5 vampires to do it.

14. Karl, as a true child of Khalida's lineage and blessing was capable of using Nagash's power words at a much higher level (close as with Nagash's Crown of Command). This was why lady Reiva wanted the boy, so she could rule over all Vampires. This actually made her a complex ally of the PCs being an enemy of their enemy.

This was the final structure:

Act One - (13 sessions)
1. Noblesse Oblige
2. Dead Ringer
3. Chapter 1
4. Chapter 2
5. Chapter 3

Act Two - (11 sessions)
6. Chapter 4/Spires of Altdorf
7. Rough Night at Three Feathers
8. Chapter 5

Act Two - (12 sessions)
9. Necrarch's Tower from TTT Expansion 2
10. Passion Play from Chapter 6
11. Chapter 7 supplemented by TTT Expansion 1
12. Chapter 8
13. Chapter 9

How do you feel the WFRP 2e system held up to play?  In my campaign, it was...messy.  Though that was partially the fault of some of the players.

Quote from: B.T.;494689How do you feel the WFRP 2e system held up to play?  In my campaign, it was...messy.  Though that was partially the fault of some of the players.

It worked great. Several players even mentioned that mechanically it was one of the more fun systems they have experienced, never having come across it before. It held up when it was needed providing PC differentiation, tense fights and easy to use resolution. It also got out of the way a lot of the time yet managed to remain firm and prevent any major mechanical abuses (even if a few stats were quite high at the end).

This is consistent with the even longer WFRP 2e campaign I am currently playing in. We are around 4,000XP in that and we are now starting to push the upper boundary a lot more of the mechanics and seeing the first signs of strain.

FWIW I have run/played a lot of WFRP 1e and 2e in the last 25 years, so I know the system well and how to apply it as a GM. However, WFRP 2e is wide open in terms of how the system is used. So I can see how it may be problematic if the it was implemented differently, especially around the calling of dice rolls.

It also works better for me that WFRP 1e, mostly as it has a uniform core system, better magic support and greater PC longevity. I would still be happy to use 1e at the drop of a hat though

When I ran it, it was my first game, so that may be where the trouble came from.  I also dislike the critical hit/insanity system.

Quote from: B.T.;494712When I ran it, it was my first game, so that may be where the trouble came from.  I also dislike the critical hit/insanity system.

Without knowing your specific issue, I can't really comment. They both work fine for me.

The hardest part of implementation is when to call for dice rolls. Essentially it's in the same line as Unknwon Armies. As GM, use the system to decide things where failure is an option. If you think the PC has a good chance of success and success moves things along, let it slide.

WFRP 2nd Ed is absolutely beautiful and elegant.

Good to hear you had a fantastic experience with the Thousand Thrones - I'm going to be running this for my players later this year.

Quote from: Blackhand;494739Good to hear you had a fantastic experience with the Thousand Thrones - I'm going to be running this for my players later this year.

Excellent. I hope some of my ideas may prove helpful. Make sure you grab the two TTT Expansions from Liber Fanatica.

QuoteWithout knowing your specific issue, I can't really comment. They both work fine for me.

Chance of success too low, too many skills, character advancement very "meh" except for wizards, combat dragged because characters often couldn't overcome AP + TB in damage.

Quote from: B.T.;494856Chance of success too low, too many skills, character advancement very "meh" except for wizards, combat dragged because characters often couldn't overcome AP + TB in damage.

1. See comment above about calling for rolls. GM's need to be more judicious about when to call for rolls. See also fortune points.

2. + 3. Neither an issue IME. Re 3. in 2e, Wizards are probably more "meh" than other PCs IMO.

4. Starting level PCs, right? Watching two scribes fight each other in WFRP is like, well watching two librarians fight each other in real life Don't worry as soon as they are combat capable, PCs will have no issues. My longest fights were 15-20 minutes (5 or so rounds).

Quote4. Starting level PCs, right? Don't worry as soon as they are combat capable PCs, they will have no issues. Most of my fights lasted no more than 20 minutes (5 or so rounds).

Even with rapidly advancing them beyond their starting careers, we had trouble (even with characters making two attacks in a round).  Part of this, I suspect, was the players, as they were not really engaged in the game; I had only one player who was interested in what was going on.  However, I would like non-casters to have a bit more powerful character progression (getting a talent that does +1 damage on attacks is just not...inspiring).

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I think i should point out that in my original manuscript for chapter 6 de Trois wasn't hiding in the crowd and slowly getting closer in the passion play, but was backstage and was going to take the stage as Nagash as was proper!

Got edited out without my knowledge, but that's freelancing for you.

If I were going to play WFRP 2e again, I'd probably want to drastically simplify the career system.  (I can take this to another thread if it's too derail-y.)  My players, save for the one, didn't really "get" the career system and how it worked (trying to explain how advancements worked was a chore), and he rolled an acrobat instead of a wizard.  What I'd probably do is separate the careers into two parts.  

First, your background.  You would roll this as normal, getting things like grave digger, rat catcher, scribe, and so forth.  This would give two of your stats an automatic +5% boost (grave digger might have Agility and Toughness whereas scribe might have Intelligence and Willpower).

Second, your career.  You could choose this or roll as you desire.  This would create your "advancement profile" as with a normal career.  The difference?  All your advancements would be contained within the profile, so a "thief" career would start with something like +20% Agility, +15% WS/BS, etc.  You could spend XP to buy up your stats immediately (so in theory a character could have maxed a stat within a few sessions; this doesn't bother me).  I'd have to completely revamp the talents because most of them suck, but each career would come with a full list of talents to choose from, too.

Quote from: B.T.;494862Even with rapidly advancing them beyond their starting careers, we had trouble (even with characters making two attacks in a round).  Part of this, I suspect, was the players, as they were not really engaged in the game; I had only one player who was interested in what was going on.  However, I would like non-casters to have a bit more powerful character progression (getting a talent that does +1 damage on attacks is just not...inspiring).

Cool. Your experiences don't really match mine at all. I agree with Blackhand that WFRP is an elegant system and shines the most because it does what it needs to do without fuss or distraction. It really holds up against the worst abuses, provides diversity, imports setting and gives a decent progression for all PCs.

FWIW I don't really want to start a discussion over the WFRP system here. There are plenty of threads that have done that. If you start one up in another thread, I will chip in

Quote from: One Horse Town;494864Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I think i should point out that in my original manuscript for chapter 6 de Trois wasn't hiding in the crowd and slowly getting closer in the passion play, but was backstage and was going to take the stage as Nagash as was proper!

Got edited out without my knowledge, but that's freelancing for you.

We had an issue with Chapter 6 in that it assumed that the PCs would rejoin the Crusade taking the boy with them. Given the previous shenanigans and the fact that the PCs were becoming more competent, this was a bridge too far.

However, I love the Passion Play so we kept it. Instead of Chapter 6 as written, the PCs joined the Wood Elves to assault Lord De Trois tower (thanks to TTT Expansion 2). There they got their first taste of the Thousand Thrones Prophecy (De Trois was an expert and a loon) and also got wind of his Play.

We played De Trois as an eccentric who held plays of Sigmar's Apotheosis as a way of heralding his own. He lost himself to religious furor when the Passion Play hit its height. Anyway, after leaving the Tower, the PCs met with their patron Lady Reiva and with a little nudge they went to Talabheim to attend the Play and assasinate De Trois. The rest of the Play worked as written and De Trois did end up on stage acting out his Apotheosis and getting killed by the PCs.

So, maybe we channelled your contribution subconsciously

A question for both of you:  Are you using minis?

My group does, and it seems to fix a lot of perceived issues.

On the chance of success thing...you need to be judicious with modifiers!  A lot of +10% can add up.  Remember it's basically D20, so what you would think of as +1 in D&D can translate roughly to +5%.