For those of you who don't know, in WFRP 2e, you subtract your Toughness Bonus (1/10th of your Toughness score) to the damage that you take.  And given that the right careers will give you +20-30% to your Toughness score, you're looking at the average human having skin as thick as platemail armor (which takes off five damage per hit).

This aggravates me because it's ridiculous (and leads to Naked Dwarf Syndrome) where the lone, nude dwarf can run about, impervious to harm.  I think perhaps adding your full TB to your wounds and only allowing half of it to subtract damage would be a better system.

Thoughts?

Well except in most cased the SB cancels out the TB and you are left with a straight damage roll which means on average - for average people every swing of the sword does 5.5 damage.  Which means that on average a 2 sword swings will kill you.  Armour does make up the difference between life and death for an average combatant.

Quote from: B.T.;497017This aggravates me because it's ridiculous (and leads to Slayer Dwarf Syndrome) where the lone, nude dwarf can run about, trying to die a glorious death in battle and failing miserably, and thus moving on to bigger and more dangerous foes.

Spotted a couple of typos, fixed them for you.

Kryyst has it right, but if it bothers you - houserule it. My advice is, that any damage that counts as "excellent blow" (anything that provokes Fury of Ulric, or a roll of 01 - 05) gives automatic 1d10 damage if someone doesn't wear armour at all.

You can houserule it if you want, but then you miss all the fun of naked slayer dwarves, which--to me--is a feature of the world, not a flaw.

TB matches SB. Essentially, standard damage in WFRP is 1d10 - Armour Points. In a game where most people have around 10 Wounds or so, maxing out in the high teens, this isnt a big issue in play IME. An unarmoured person can expect two hits to serious trouble. An armoured knight can expect four or so.

Quote from: B.T.;497017For those of you who don't know, in WFRP 2e, you subtract your Toughness Bonus (1/10th of your Toughness score) to the damage that you take.  And given that the right careers will give you +20-30% to your Toughness score, you're looking at the average human having skin as thick as platemail armor (which takes off five damage per hit).

This aggravates me because it's ridiculous (and leads to Naked Dwarf Syndrome) where the lone, nude dwarf can run about, impervious to harm.  I think perhaps adding your full TB to your wounds and only allowing half of it to subtract damage would be a better system.

Thoughts?

The NDS is why I gave up that game completely.  It does have some merits but because of the NDS, I have forsworn that game for eternity...

Naked Dwarf Syndrome takes about 10 seconds to fix. If it hurts one's eyes so much - double the damage received by someone who wears no armour.

In terms of NDS in 2e, even a buffed up dwarf without armour is likely to get badly hurt. A Toughness in the 60s is about the same as a normal person in chain.

In 1e, with a d6 for damage and no Ulric's Fury, NDS was much more an issue IME

Quote from: Skywalker;497281In terms of NDS in 2e, even a buffed up dwarf without armour is likely to get badly hurt. A Toughness in the 60s is about the same as a normal person in chain.

In 1e, with a d6 for damage and no Ulric's Fury, NDS was much more an issue IME

There is Ulric's Fury in 1e. When you roll a 6 on dmg die, you roll WS and if you succeed, bonus dmg until you ran out of 6s. It was just for HtH by rules though, but I've adapted it for ranged weapons as well.

Quote from: Rincewind1;497282There is Ulric's Fury in 1e. When you roll a 6 on dmg die, you roll WS and if you succeed, bonus dmg until you ran out of 6s. It was just for HtH by rules though, but I've adapted it for ranged weapons as well.

True, though 1e's exploding d6s did little to address NDS IME which was the point I was trying to make.

Quote from: Skywalker;497286True, though 1e's exploding d6s did little to address NDS IME which was the point I was trying to make.

I don't see how 2e's exploding d10s make more to address NDS. At least with d6 a chance of scoring Ulric's Fury is much higher, and Wounds were about 4 - 5 points lower, which made up for that 1 - 2 points of higher Toughness that 1e allowed.

Quote from: Rincewind1;497290I don't see how 2e's exploding d10s make more to address NDS. At least with d6 a chance of scoring Ulric's Fury is much higher, and Wounds were about 4 - 5 points lower, which made up for that 1 - 2 points of higher Toughness that 1e allowed.

I can see you point, but I found that that the balance between Toughness, Armour, damage dice, universally applying Ulric's Fury etc to make NDS a lot less of an issue in 2e.

The larger damage dice in 2e means that there was greater variability of damage results from mere flesh wounds to serious injuries. This allows for tough PCs to be reflected but still take some damage. It avoided the all or nothing feel of 1e arsing from the smaller damage dice and smaller wounds which in extended combat gave that sense of invulnerability.

As to exploding d10s v d6s in particular, exploding d10s do more damage on average and give less of feeling of needing an Ulric's Fury to do anything to a ND which contributed to the creating NDS.

FWIW 2e does have a Plate Armoured with Shield Dwarf Syndrome, but I find that concept less offensive than NDS (it's a Dwarf in plate for fuck's sake .

Quote from: Skywalker;497293I can see you point, but I found that that the balance between Toughness, Armour, damage dice, universally applying Ulric's Fury etc to make NDS a lot less of an issue in 2e.

The larger damage dice in 2e means that there was greater variability of damage results from mere flesh wounds to serious injuries. This allows for tough PCs to be reflected but still take some damage. It avoided the all or nothing feel of 1e arsing from the smaller damage dice and smaller wounds which in extended combat gave that sense of invulnerability.

As to exploding d10s v d6s in particular, exploding d10s do more damage on average and give less of feeling of needing an Ulric's Fury to do anything to a ND which contributed to the creating NDS.

Ah right, I forgot that 2e makes armours a bit better - I use a set of houserules that does the same for my 1e.  I'd say that with Wounds being significantly increased by 2e, there's not much difference between damage dealt by d6 and d10, except that d6 grants you Ulric's Fury more often, which fits my bloodstained and gory vision of Warhammer. I will on that basis disagree that in 1e you had the sense of invulnerability in extended combat - if anything, on the contrary, because you were always afraid of your opponent getting that lucky 6 - and the chance of that is higher then on d10. Then again, Ulric's Fury in 2e means that you are probably much, much more screwed that you were under Ulric's Fury in 1e, which balances it out - the supreme hits are much rarer, but they are also much more painful.