I've been thinking about this, and the reason that WFRP 2e sucks is because you're either a spellcaster who can do spells and shit or you're a melee dude who sits there and swift attacks in between dying horribly.  In theory, this is acceptable because the WFRP 2e system fully embraces the idea that you're a mortal and you suck.  So only magic users get nice things because otherwise you're doing "martial magic," and that's not allowed.

So let's stick with that: martial characters don't get nice things.  At least not automatically.  Instead, let's embrace steampunk wackery to give them things to do.  I want to see alchemist bombs, shrapnel guns, electrified swords, and spring-loaded boots.  I want jet-propelled crossbow bolts and rocket skates and all sorts of crazy crap that would make noncasters interesting.

Discuss.

Didn't magic suck too in 1e? That might be an easier fix

What happened to the stuff outside game mechanics? Actual role playing isn't nice enough? Doing actual tactical stuff by using your brains isn't nice enough? Solving problems isn't nice enough? Does your GM suck that bad that the game is the rules, and the rules are the game?

I really don't get this obsession over "getting nice things", meaning, "getting perks in the rules is all that matters. If I don't get a character mechanically just as powerful as the next guy, this game sucks."

I just don't get it. Are you playing role playing games? :confused:

B.T., I don't know what you're going on about. Spellcaster aren't any more effective that anybody else. At least using your sword won't make your head explode like what happened in my last campaign. Magic in Warhammer isn't a "nice thing."

Think harder next time.

Quote from: B.T.;402341So let's stick with that: martial characters don't get nice things.  At least not automatically.  Instead, let's embrace steampunk wackery to give them things to do.  I want to see alchemist bombs, shrapnel guns, electrified swords, and spring-loaded boots.  I want jet-propelled crossbow bolts and rocket skates and all sorts of crazy crap that would make noncasters interesting.

Yeah sure, let's just make Warhammer completely retarded.

WFRP 2e does not "suck", but I agree with you that a steampunk campaign using that rules set could be real sweet.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;402352WFRP 2e does not "suck", but I agree with you that a steampunk campaign using that rules set could be real sweet.

I agree too, by the way. Thematically speaking, a steampunk game using WFRP2 rules could be cool.

The three melee characters in my last WFRP 2e game wrecked shop.  Heavy Armor + at least two martial careers = a world of hurt.

The only times they had troubles was when they didn't have all their gear.  Don't go into combat with a Skaven Gutterrunner with just a shield.  His poison coated knife will kill you.  

Once the three martial career Dwarf got a sword that bypassed armor it got even more brutal.  For my poor monsters.

Personally, WFRP 2e is a near perfect game.

I'm pretty sick of steampunk for the most part. Right now, WFRP's development is analogous to periods that're otherwise underserved by RPGs (the Renaissance and Early Modern Period mainly). I think that helps to contribute to the unique feel of its setting compared to all the High Middle Ages games and 19th century wankery. Commercial setting writers seem to have a weird historical blind spot for 1455-1804 sometimes.

Quote from: Benoist;402354I agree too, by the way. Thematically speaking, a steampunk game using WFRP2 rules could be cool.

I actually think WFRP 2e could be used for various themes, such as:

* steampunk (Iron Kingdoms)
* fantasy western (Deadlands)
* horror (Call of Cthulhu)
* fantasy (Greyhawk)
* sword 'n sorcery (Conan)

The list goes on...

WFRP doesn't suck... but I do like the idea of adding limited steam-tech here and there... not whole armies armed with steam tanks but scattered inventions (the wargame already has steam tanks in it...).

It would make the whole setting even more like a Terry Gilliam movie... well, I always saw it as a Terry Gilliam movie anyways.

Maybe there could be an profession that could generate such things... ala the Mad Scientists in Deadlands. Meaning the stuff would potentially be just as dangerous to the user as any target he might use it on. (again... I'm thinking of the fellow in Brothers Grimm who made the 'poodle blender').

QuoteI actually think WFRP 2e could be used for various themes, such as:

* steampunk (Iron Kingdoms)
* fantasy western (Deadlands)
* horror (Call of Cthulhu)
* fantasy (Greyhawk)
* sword 'n sorcery (Conan)

Agreed... it would be my system of choice if I ever ran Iron Kingdoms.
I've been wanting to run the Cadwallon/Aarklash setting with it... which is higher magic than WFRP's 'Known World'... and cleaner I think ... a bit more fairy tale... but still dark and grim. The Dwarves in Aarklash are heavy into steam-tech Link Link Link Link Link

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;402362I'm pretty sick of steampunk for the most part. Right now, WFRP's development is analogous to periods that're otherwise underserved by RPGs (the Renaissance and Early Modern Period mainly). I think that helps to contribute to the unique feel of its setting compared to all the High Middle Ages games and 19th century wankery. Commercial setting writers seem to have a weird historical blind spot for 1455-1804 sometimes.

Word.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;402365I actually think WFRP 2e could be used for various themes, such as:

* steampunk (Iron Kingdoms)
* fantasy western (Deadlands)
* horror (Call of Cthulhu)
* fantasy (Greyhawk)
* sword 'n sorcery (Conan)

Yeah, the system is excellent for low-key fantasy, although next time I'll be instituting a +20% adjustment to all PC, NPC and monster stats. For the longest time I thought low percentages were integral to the game's charm. Now I don't.

Also, WFRP had subtle shades of steampunk since the early days, with unique Dwarvish and Skaven contraptions making occasional appearances. It's there, but very much on the fringes.

I seem to recall some unofficial chat amongst v2 designers back at BI about doing some stuff on inventions and inventors.

Quote from: Benoist;402343I just don't get it. Are you playing role playing games? :confused:

Yes, I am.  But combat for non-casters is really boring.

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;402346B.T., I don't know what you're going on about. Spellcaster aren't any more effective that anybody else. At least using your sword won't make your head explode like what happened in my last campaign. Magic in Warhammer isn't a "nice thing."

Think harder next time.

Casting spells takes a dump all over melees.  When a spellcaster can literally throw 10 fireballs in one round, there's a problem.  Yes, it comes with a risk, but the chances of getting a really bad Tzeentch's curse are pretty low.

And the reason that I say that WFRP 2e sucks is because of how shitty characters are and how shitty they remain unless you drastically improve their chances of success.  Starting with a 30% chance of succeeding on something?  That's just too low.  Especially in combat.  In my experience, combat goes whiff-whiff-hit-whiff-whiff-ULRIC'S FURY-the end.