Quote from: Brand55;850483People still constantly bitch about Pinnacle setting forth the idea that there was a stalemate in Deadlands (and thus, the South winning its independence). So, yeah, no doubt that would cause an even bigger uproar than the Thunder Plains.

  I have to admit, I was really surprised that Pinnacle didn't take more heat from the surge in anti-Confederate sentiment this summer. Or did it just happen somewhere I'm not aware of it? I follow Savage Worlds news, but I don't keep up with Deadlands.

Pinnacle and others like it handle the SJW appropriately - they ignore, maybe issue one or two comments somewhere obscure, and then keep producing things consistent with their creative vision. Everyone should do this. Never cave in. Never surrender!

Quote from: jan paparazzi;850611If the policor people get what they want, that means the end of fiction. Writers can't make up a setting,  because some people might be offended. It's only ketchup, people. It's not real.

Trust me, you're preaching to the choir here.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;850623I have to admit, I was really surprised that Pinnacle didn't take more heat from the surge in anti-Confederate sentiment this summer. Or did it just happen somewhere I'm not aware of it? I follow Savage Worlds news, but I don't keep up with Deadlands.

I didn't see anything, so if anyone brought up the issue it likely didn't turn into anything major. Now, if Microsoft hadn't screwed up their TV plans and the Deadlands series had been made, it might have been a different story. That would have put the setting in front of a much larger audience.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;850630Pinnacle and others like it handle the SJW appropriately - they ignore, maybe issue one or two comments somewhere obscure, and then keep producing things consistent with their creative vision. Everyone should do this. Never cave in. Never surrender!

Not true. While that's usually the case, they caved in on the Science Fiction Companion, which delayed the book's release a week so the cover could be 'fixed.' I really wasn't happy about that one.

The original image showed a fully-clothed female captain from behind, her left hand slightly raised and her fist clenched as she watched the battle unfolding in front of her ship. This was a travesty, of course, because the cover showed her backside. It was practically porn. People complained, saying how they had to hide the various Companion books from friends and family because the covers were too embarrassing and demeaning to women. So the book was delayed and the cover changed.

Original cover: https://www.peginc.com/scifi-and-super-powers-companions-for-the-new-year/

Revised: https://www.peginc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SFC_Cover_Web.jpg

At least the Riverside stuff died down quickly without calls to retroactively rewrite the Worlds Limitless and Strange.  I guess they'll have to stick to the most bland subject matter they can manage or "approved targets".

Well, there goes my theory. Maybe it's just because Deadlands isn't new and getting a lot of buzz. It just seems logical, though, that once you cave people will keep going after you because you've already caved. Guess I'm wrong.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;850650Well, there goes my theory. Maybe it's just because Deadlands isn't new and getting a lot of buzz. It just seems logical, though, that once you cave people will keep going after you because you've already caved. Guess I'm wrong.

  If Pinnacle caved, they caved subtly--the art was only slightly adjusted, there was no public announcement that this was the reason for the delay on their website, and the wallpaper available for download still contains the old art.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;850659If Pinnacle caved, they caved subtly--the art was only slightly adjusted, there was no public announcement that this was the reason for the delay on their website, and the wallpaper available for download still contains the old art.

Yeah. The official reason for the delay of the SciFi and Super Powers Companions was that they were getting an extra pass through for typos and the like, which doesn't make much sense given that they had been in development for a long time and launched with lots of errors, anyway. Like most of PEG's releases, the preorder PDFs were dissected by buyers, issues were posted on the forums, and most of the fixes were implemented before the book went to the printers. Delaying the book's release just kept dozens if not hundreds of proofreaders from combing through it for another week. The announcement about the cover being updated was fairly low-key and happened on the forums in the middle of the thread where people were complaining about the cover image. It also coincided perfectly with the delay.

The thing that bugs me about it still is that now every time I pick up my SFC my eyes are immediately drawn to the smear of blue where the woman's fist used to be before they altered the image. It's like the arrow in the Fedex sign. Once you know it's there, you can't help seeing it. It mars what is otherwise a very nice cover.

I think the Riverside stuff died so quickly both because there really was nothing to it and because there was nothing at all to tie to any real-world people. Keeping everything so vague really didn't give the detractors even a shred of footing to base an argument on.

Quote from: Brand55;850675I think the Riverside stuff died so quickly both because there really was nothing to it and because there was nothing at all to tie to any real-world people. Keeping everything so vague really didn't give the detractors even a shred of footing to base an argument on.

I think the only reason it was an "issue" at all is because TBP is a hostile territory with regards to Monte Cook and, by extension, MCG. A dozen twits, some of them mods, are still cheesed off that Monte Cook described the only Purple-approved D&D as being "not D&D to [him]." They're pissed off that Shanna Germain is sex-positive, attractive, and socially conscious (how dare she be on the same side?!). They're probably even distraught that Bruce Cordell is in better shape than they are. So they witch-hunt for Nibovian Wives, jump on the bandwagon when some non-gamer rags on Thunder Plains, ignore any positive changes they can't simply dismiss, and get their digs in where they can. Haters gonna hate.

Speaking of Deadlands, I was a bit surprised to see the art for "Stoker's Sabre" from Doomtown: Reloaded's Nightmare at Noon saddlebag:

http://www.alderac.com/doomtown/2015/07/22/nightmare-at-noon-preview-stokers-sabre/

I grew up and live in an area that was once home to the Lakota tribe, so I learned a bunch of stuff about them in school.

for a time we learned 2 sides to their history, for example they called themselves the Lakota meaning friend.

however, everyone else referred to them as the Sioux, meaning enemy. because they tended to treat anyone not a part of their tribe as someone to be attacked on sight.  didn't matter what your skin tone was.

the problem is that even within a group like the Native Americans there were a whole lot of different view points, so while, yes, SOME tribes did see the Thunderbird as a benevolent figure, others didn't.

to say that all Native Americans got along with no conflicts at all in their history would be the same as saying that the French and the Germans have always gotten along because both nationalities were white.

the Native American tribes never saw themselves as a unified nation, they were multiple nations, they just didn't have defined borders and maps.

Same with the algonquin and related and why I pointed out in the other thread on this how it would have been more realistic to portray the native americans as bloodthirsty loons rather than the fairly tame depiction the Strange gave. But then the Thunder Plains is not based on reality. Which the SJWs totally ignored.

Akin to someone complaining that Changeling does not properly depict Irish folklore. Well no duh! It is not supposed to!

Why let little things like context and intent stand in the way of a good witch hunt?

Quote from: CRKrueger;850138In the Identity War, Truth is the first casualty.

I heard this at the end of the sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g

So... has anyone notified anyone at TPB that this is not real? No native Americans or minorities of any kind have been harmed in the creation of this game of makebelieve?

Edit - I like the bit where they're classifying the possibility that because some of the Recursions come from cultural fiction it opens up the possibility that Recursions could be filled with the most "repulsive degree" of racial stereotyping etc...

Uhh... so it makes me ask: "Well since you're running your own game, wouldn't that be YOU subjecting your sensitive players to all of that repulsive racial stereotyping in your own head?" Worse - is the corollary assumption then that they are essentially saying: "For the love of all that is holy, we can't let this game be played by other people!! It might allow them to unleash the racism/sexism/bigotry we ourselves have and feel revulsed by!!!!"

Ah well.

The game looks/sounds/interesting. I'm in.

There are people who believe that artists drawing violence are killers and murderers, or artists drawing nudes are rapists. At a con back in the 90s I had someone recognize me and confront me over some of the horror stuff Id done accusing me of some pretty crackheaded things.

So yes children. I must admit it. Dragons are real. And I have personally taken great delight in bumping off several in creatively gruesome ways.