Quote from: Willie the Duck;1011747You're not. It's there. kind of a 'select limb, select rough weight of armor, get number. Add up all the numbers to get total armor value.' mechanic. Also had 3 example armors (gladiator armors I think) using said system.

Quote from: Omega;1011751You are correct.

Piecemeal Armor near the end of the book.
For example a chainmail chest piece, two plate mail arm pieces and 2 banded mail leg pieces would total to AC 5. If you only salvaged one leg piece then AC 4.
Quick simple and seems to work overall. And could be used to replicate partial armours gladiators wore and such.

So it's the book with the hackneyed hit location rules as well?  Or am I remembering the Combat Options book on that?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1012617You must hang around with the wrong class of people, then.

The people are first class. Unlike some folks, we like to tell new jokes every decade or two.

Quote from: Bren;1012816The people are first class. Unlike some folks, we like to tell new jokes every decade or two.

Inconceivable!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1012821Inconceivable!

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

Still old. But better.

Quote from: Dumarest;1012675I remember that Dragon, I seem to recall an Elmore cover with girl from Snarfquest...

Oh good, someone else remembers Snarfquest.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1012815So it's the book with the hackneyed hit location rules as well?  Or am I remembering the Combat Options book on that?

I don't know about hackneyed, as I never met anyone that actually used them. Nor for that matter the original hit location rules from Supplement II. So maybe it's the inclusion of pointless hit location rules in game supplements that's hackneyed. Suffice to say, they weren't particularly good. IIRC, it was -4 to hit a specific limb or general object, and -8 to hit the head (so don't bother targeting the head of unhelmeted foes unless they are in full plate, or +3 chain, etc.).

Quote from: RPGPundit;1012617You must hang around with the wrong class of people, then.

Quote from: Bren;1012816The people are first class. Unlike some folks, we like to tell new jokes every decade or two.

You mean your group is actually fun to hang with:D?

(If I never hear another Monthy Python joke, it would still be one too many).

I'm Hungarian and despite that I still had to endure about a dozen too many Python jokes/reference.

Except ones of the "Dirty Hungarian Phrasebook", that one was for obvious reasons taboo.

Quote from: AsenRG;1012944You mean your group is actually fun to hang with:D?

(If I never hear another Monthy Python joke, it would still be one too many).

The modern 'joke' in my group is that the famous (amongst us) xckd comic--about how odd/sad it is that a group known for surreal and unexpected humor is now mostly known as comfortable jokes everyone knows by heart-- is itself over 12 years old.


...and pointing that out is itself a groan-worthy event.



That said, comfort food is comfortable, as are old ratty sweaters. People don't repeat these old chestnuts ad naseum as some bizarre test of endurance. They do it because they get a genuine, if unchallenging, laugh out of it. It's just a 'one-man's-trash...' situation.

History often shows us that something that starts out as eccentric, crazy, hip, or revolutionary tends to become mainstream with time. (and then outdated)

Quote from: joriandrake;1012952I'm Hungarian and despite that I still had to endure about a dozen too many Python jokes/reference.

Except ones of the "Dirty Hungarian Phrasebook", that one was for obvious reasons taboo.

Hungary, the only country where Attila is the hero instead of a villain.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1012977The modern 'joke' in my group is that the famous (amongst us) xckd comic--about how odd/sad it is that a group known for surreal and unexpected humor is now mostly known as comfortable jokes everyone knows by heart-- is itself over 12 years old.

I remember that one. So that was 12 years ago.

Wow. Time flies like an arrow. ...................................Fruit flies like a banana.

Quote from: Bren;1013006Hungary, the only country where Attila is the hero instead of a villain.

Although disputed, Hungarians/Magyars are pretty much also cousins to the Huns. Most of the tales and legends have common roots (and Attila is a common name), although today the most accepted origin story is that of being of finno-ugric origin I've read of different origin possiblities too, like Scythian, Sogdian, even far eastern (Somewhere on the shores of manchuria with japanese contact). While migrating we also supposedly had a lot of contact around the Don river and where now Ukraine is with Varangians (Norse) which influenced the old Hungarian religion. While our 'friendly' slavic neighbours often swap between vehemently claiming we're Mongolians or Slavic ourselves (totally ignoring that Hungarians fought Mongols) there are also Italian historians who claim that Hungarians are actually heirs to Etruscan colonists in Pannonia.

... As we ourselves aren't sure of where we came from, and we have no clear relative in Europe everyone basically claims whatever the heck they want, making us easy targets. There are some interesting things to all the claims though, some seem genuine and legit and I wouldn't be surprised if some amount of truth is there to many of those.

Due to being federal migratory tribes/clans and having genetic/language bits common with Japanese it wouldn't surprise me if the great migration for us started there, this would mean some relationship with the Ainu or Japanese. Due to moving across Eurasia picking up new members or wives from among Sogdians or Scythians wouldn't be surprising either, nor would be weird to have met Varangians along the rivers or to intermarry with Pannonians from Etruscii origin once the Carpathians were conquered. We also probably have common ancestry with the Finns and Estonians.

Interestingly I myself think the least likely origin is the second most promoted one of Turkic origin which currently seems to be a 'fan favorite' theory of the far right and Turkey. The linguistic things we have in common with Turkic I believe is a natural result of passing through Persian/Turkic ruled territories and the contact with them. Just as we're not Romans or of Roman origin because we are using now mostly words of Latin origin and the Latin alphabet. During the time of Habsburg rule the idea that Hungarians are actually related at all to the Huns was pushed away/disputed heavily. So right now our own damn education is messy about the whole thing too.


fun fact:
Kossuth is a Hungarian name, one of our revolutionary/republican leaders was named that, he had such an impact in his tour of the US that multiple settlements were named after him, might even had influenced Lincoln, and one of these towns is the namesake for the D&D god of fire.

Thank you for the patience of reading all this

All those connections go back before the bronze age. Cultures seriously differentiated after the bronze age collapse (isolated pocket evolution), but we're all basically proto-Scythains/Yamyana to some degree. The Yamnaya were the dominant trading culture from as far east as Japan to as far west as Spain (based on parallel human and cannabis genetics dating to the same eras), and basically controlled the "Silk Road" routes, until one of the mountain pass routes was rendered non-traversible (earthquakes, slides, etc block passes and dried up water sources). This split the population, and the western portion flooded the European continent and took over (not being able to freely go back and forth from the eastern steppe-land to the western steppe-lands). They had sophisticated metal work for the time (copper hammers, etc), hemp rope and fine cloth, the wheel, double horse drawn chariots, superior metal arms and armor, ox-drawn "wain" wagons big enough to build a yurt on (bronze age "tiny homes" lol), etc.

Later, after the collapse of the bronze age cultural networks,  the first iron wielding tribes flooded out of the same steppes with iron rimmed chariots, iron swords, etc, and similarly dominated europe for a time. People are much more related in a geographic sense than most people realize due to cultural and language drift. Or, to put it another way, the Huns were already "cousins" to the kingdoms that they swept in and totally dominated.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/thousands-horsemen-may-have-swept-bronze-age-europe-transforming-local-population
"Within a few hundred years, the Yamnaya contributed to at least half of central Europeans' genetic ancestry."

Let me first tell you that I'm happy how you have shown interest and that we can discuss this topic.

Priscus called the Huns also Scythians btw.

Yes, but I meant literally cousins. The seven Hungarian tribes formed a loose federation without a single supreme authority. According to national tradition, their chieftains elected Árpád, the most powerful among them, as overall leader. The Gesta Hungarorum records that "Hunni sive Hungari" divided into seven armies, each having 30,000 warriors and a single commander of whom "Arpad…" was the most powerful and the first to enter Pannonia. House Csaba is said to have been a dynasty with direct bloodline of Attila. The basis that Hungarians descend from the Huns is also the narrative of the Gesta Hungarorum based on a late 13th century manuscript which can no longer be traced. The Gestis Hungarorum Liber names "Ugek…de genere Magog regis…dux Scythie" confirming this alleged descent from Attila, when recording that he was the ancestor of Árpád the first Hungarian leader. The Annals of Lambert record that "regina Ungariorum, mater Salomonis regis" presented the sword of "rex Hunnorum Attila" to "duci Baioriorum Ottoni" after her son was restored as king of Hungary shows that the Hungarian/Hun connection was not solely an invention of later sources.  

Quote:

QuoteWhen Attila suddenly passed away in 453, his empire crumbled mostly because of the intrigues and rebellion of the Germanic tribes under him. Attila's sons were defeated in the struggle for the succession (455) and returned with their clans and kinsmen to 'Scythia'. (the land above the Black Sea, beyond the Carpathian ranges) They didn't forget their ancient grandeur and Prince (Chief) Csaba, the youngest son of Attila, began to spread the idea of an armed return to Pannónia (= Hungary), to take revenge upon the Germans, whom they considered as the main artisans of their defeat.

Interesting that other historicans see the connection to the Huns via the Avars of Pannonia:

QuoteA federation had come into being with the fusion of two great tribes: the Avari and Chunni consisting mostly of white Huns. The name Avari (< H.: A vár-i) means 'He who comes from an embanked stronghold', and Chunni (< H.: Hun-i, i.e. Hon-i), Huns. J. Thury, a Hungarian historian established that 37 different sources identify the Avars ethnically as Huns (P 059 pp. 113,128). In the Carpathian basin, they mainly occupied the Great Central Plain and Transdanubia and also considerable parts of present-day Austria and Dalmatia. The Avars kept their empire and their independence until 796, when they were defeated by the Franks under Charlemagne, who destroyed their State, whereby the pendulum swing, once again, westward. Those who studied life in Pannónia under Roman rule more closely, have also pointed out certain linguistic facts which evidence the survival of the Hungarian language. The very name of the land Pannónia, for example, is a Hunnic or Avar compound with Pan and Hon (=H.: Fenn-Hon) meaning 'Upper Land'. The most important city was Savaria, so named after the Sun god or the Avars themselves. In that city, God was worshipped in a great temple, which had an immense Sundisc above its altar. The present-day village of Szabar, near ancient Savaria, probably retains the ancient city's names.

Direct relation between Huns-Hungarian was something fully accepted once but now people tend to dismiss it as fantasy, I myself don't really know about it but considering the people we conquered and 'interbred' with I would say it's highly likely we do have actual Hun ancestors. Our traditional archery is also very similar to the Scythian/Hunnic one, some regions of Hungary even in early 15th century still had archers wear armor similar to the one from the migration period.

something like this:

Spoiler

Ok, I won't post more about this. While bows and cultural armors are on topic, most of it isn't, but I am fine with continuing this in PMs.