Oh, the wizard Lord Krens of Krens' Cairn an NPC in my Wilderlands is pretty cool. He's known to 'prefer the company of men', which caused a political problem as he wouldn't marry one of Lord Vilius Theber's daughters sent to study magic under him; and he was the one Ghinarian Lord to successfully defy Warlord Yusan; Krens' Cairn became the launchpad for the counter-offensive that ultimately destroyed Yusan. Him being gay doesn't have anything much to do with him being a cool character though.

Mordred Midwinter, Eldritch Knight of Valon, is a cool PC IMC who's gay; this mostly manifests in him having no interest in the various buxom noblewomen he interacts with. Also perhaps his occasional prissiness and horror of dirt - player is gay and likes a laugh.

Quote from: jhkim;1039156I didn't catch the reference. Who are they, and what were they like in-game?

It was a superhero Play-by-Post. I lurked. What I remember most was the apparent plausibility of the characters. They seemed... real. Almost as if they weren't characters being played PbP, but real people.

I find this whole thread just wierd.

Quote from: jeff37923;1039256What if sexual orientation didn't matter for that NPC and their role in the adventure? Is it still important to check and make sure? Or does that mean that the GM isn't "woke"?



So by keeping things that are extraneous to the actual play of the game, out of the game, is considered by you to be actively hostile? Does this mean that you believe that tabletop RPGs can cause injury to people and thus dangerous?



Because AI computers and Dralasites are not interested in what is really a function beyond their ability to experience?



Because your argument screams of tokenism for GBLT characters in tabletop RPGs. If that is how you roll, then so be it.



So you are saying that it is OK to exclude things which are not important to a game. That is exactly what I have been saying. I'm glad we agree on that.



So it sounds like it is an individual decision. Why not let the individual game groups decide what to include and exclude based on the Players and GM? Or like jhkim, you do not trust the common gamer with that responsibility?

I'll respect jhkim's request and not derail his thread further, but I will respond if you repost elsewhere.

Quote from: Motorskills;1039325I'll respect jhkim's request and not derail his thread further, but I will respond if you repost elsewhere.

What a chickenshit response. I'm not surprised though.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1039250Next game we're supposed to be playing is a Call of Cthulhu game set in 1923. Part of me really wants to play a gay black man, but in a setting like that I think it would be unreasonably distruptive to the table. Bet I could make it work though.

Jazz musician.

Also, the North and the West weren't the South.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1039317I find this whole thread just wierd.

This whole forum is weird!

Quote from: jeff37923;1039256Because your argument screams of tokenism for GBLT characters in tabletop RPGs.

Does anyone know where tokenism ends and inclusiveness begins?

AKA, how many NPCs of a specific minority do you need in an adventure to avoid tokenism?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1039347Does anyone know where tokenism ends and inclusiveness begins?

AKA, how many NPCs of a specific minority do you need in an adventure to avoid tokenism?

I'll take a stab at answering this.

If it is important to the smooth flow of play during the adventure and makes sense in the campaign setting to have a NPC be a specific minority, then it is not tokenism.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1039347AKA, how many NPCs of a specific minority do you need in an adventure to avoid tokenism?

Well for LGBTQ the official estimate is somewhere under 5% so about 1 in 20 would be accurate.

Of course, it could be suggested that extra "consideration" may include the fact that any NPC with an unspecified sexualty has previously been assumed to be hetero-cis.

Therefore one could argue that with the number of NPCs in published materials since the hobbies inception, that would make even 1% a huge number that must be rectified.

In order to attempt some form of balance in the interests of inclusiveness, on could suggeset that people  only buy published materials that have a significantly higher LGBTQ demographic than 5%. 50% or higher, perhaps.

Quote from: jeff37923;1039354I'll take a stab at answering this.

If it is important to the smooth flow of play during the adventure and makes sense in the campaign setting to have a NPC be a specific minority, then it is not tokenism.

There you go being reasonable and dispassionate about this.:rolleyes:

There was quite a lot of them.

The most recent wasn't one of mine. It was in my Dark Albion campaign, one of my players was a fighter from a knightly family named Alan Boleyn (a possible ancestor of the future Queen of England). Boleyn's player made it clear that Alan was gay, and the rest of the PCs generally had a strong suspicion, but of course the setting being what it was, he kept it mostly under wraps. He had at one point been a favorite of the Duke of Clarence, who I also played as secretly gay.

Quote from: jhkim;1039277Cool. The combination of these two reminds me - I had a very long-running character in a many-year 1930s Call of Cthulhu campaign who was bisexual.  He had been a German WWI veteran, and was scarred by time in the trenches - including forbidden tragic love.  In the campaign, he fell in love and got married to a woman early on, but his bisexuality was commented on from time to time - especially because his wife was a fellow investigator who frequently wore men's clothing (i.e. pants instead of dresses in the 1930s).  Also, he was a painter and part of the Bohemian art scene at the time, where his bisexuality was not a big deal.

Well, it makes sense for a painter and Bohemian artist:).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1039347Jazz musician.

Funny, that wasmy first idea as well:D! Those immoral jazz artists!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1039347Jazz musician.

Also, the North and the West weren't the South.

I'm not American, so my knowledge of (presumably) your country's history is a bit spotty. The setting is New England, which cursory research says was one of the more progressive areas of the USA at the time. My initial idea was to play a retired member of the No 2 Construction Battalion, but a jazz musician could work as well. Granted, one concept doesn't actually interfere with the other. Gonna have to see how CoC's character creation mechanics work.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039363There you go being reasonable and dispassionate about this.:rolleyes:

It is a failing of mine, I admit.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1039381I'm not American, so my knowledge of (presumably) your country's history is a bit spotty. The setting is New England, which cursory research says was one of the more progressive areas of the USA at the time. My initial idea was to play a retired member of the No 2 Construction Battalion, but a jazz musician could work as well. Granted, one concept doesn't actually interfere with the other. Gonna have to see how CoC's character creation mechanics work.

For that same time period and to add a bit of bohemian to the character, have them be originally from Baton Rouge, Louisiana where jazz and blues really hit their stride. Say that they worked with Ledbelly in one of the Louisiana whorehouses for a spell before entering the military.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1039370There was quite a lot of them.

The most recent wasn't one of mine. It was in my Dark Albion campaign, one of my players was a fighter from a knightly family named Alan Boleyn (a possible ancestor of the future Queen of England). Boleyn's player made it clear that Alan was gay, and the rest of the PCs generally had a strong suspicion, but of course the setting being what it was, he kept it mostly under wraps. He had at one point been a favorite of the Duke of Clarence, who I also played as secretly gay.

Cool. I'd be glad to hear more about it. That reminds me how a long time ago (20 years), I had a nobleman in my friend Joshua's campaign who was secretly gay. Here are the old campaign notes: http://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/landofneng/

Looking back on it, this was back in the time when I would sometimes write long character descriptions - that I tend to do less of now. Still, it was interesting to read the description. Here was my old character sheet:

QuoteCassiaz ein Yabate
5'1'', Weight 180#, Age 26
Thein

STR 5 (1) : WIL 6 (2) : POW 6 (2)
AGL 3 (1) : AWR 7 (2) : INT 3 (1)
HLT 6 (2) : SAN 4 (1) : SPR 6 (2)

SKILLS:
3 Melee Weapons       : 3 History            : 4 Stealth
4 - Sword             : 4 - Specialty        : 6 - Camouflage
2 Projectile Weapons  : 4 Law                :
3 - Bow               : 5 - Theinorran       :
3 Unarmed Combat      : 5 Thaumaturgy        :
3 Swimming            : 7 - Air              :
3 Climbing            : 7 - Stagnant Water   :

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Cassiaz was born the second son of a Farmer in the Theinhold of Yabate, a small Theinhold near Chandiope rules by Tidin.  His father, Ayjolen, ruled the farmhold of Tiaz with his mother Bediz.

Ayjolen and his family were in good standing politically because of thei long-standing military service, but the land of Tiaz suffered from extensive erosion and flooding.  The family home was proudly built but spartan and often uncomfortable, particularly for children.  The boys were frequently sent off to be raised in some military specialty.  The father made various bargains with the spirits, but they always seemed to turn on him.  

Cassiaz grew up rather bookish by temperament.  From when he was 5 to around age 13, his father embarked on a project to reclaim swampland for use in farming.  He was set upon raising the fortunes of the farmhold, which Cassiaz picked up on.  He was helpful when he could be, but he was more often a hindrance than a help.  Also, there was an unspoken disappointment that he was not a great soldier.  

His father by and large had little time for him, and grew increasingly stern as his efforts to improve the farming only seemed to make the situation worse.  Cassiaz was typically scolded for being underfoot.  He avoided this by wandering off on his own or with his cousins, making grand tours of the farmhold and getting into trouble.  His mother Bediz was very supportive of him, and helped to teach him whatever subjects he wanted to know.  

By age 15 he had decided to go into thaumaturgy as a profession.  This was considered a bit odd for his family but respected.  

---------

In personality, Cassiaz seeks after status.  The most direct route to that is money, in his opinion.  Those with wealth and power can maneuver their way into status, but those without cannot.  Socially, the most critical thing he views is the problem of magic.  Magic is rampant but uncontrolled, with evil spirits and evil mages capable of doing great harm.  The religions protect their own interests but do not enforce correct behavior.  He wants to reform the system, but from within it.  

Privately and when at peace, he does see with the eyes of spirits, but he sees his duty as a greater spiritual burden.  He binds and uses spirits, explaining at times that it is what he must do.  

On a personal level, Cassiaz is queer.

Having it in the last sentence comes across as an afterthought as I read it now, and maybe it was, but it still seemed like an interesting bit of color in play.