Quote from: Cranewings;295491Conan, at least in the original stories, had trouble fighting five or six guys at a time, ran from guards, failed over half of his saving throws, fought mostly wizards that used second level spells like Bull's Strength, Levitation, and Hypnotism, failed virtually every saving throw, especially Will saving throws against fear, and ran from monsters that in my opinion, wouldn't have more than 6 or 7 hit dice.

I personally believe you can have the Conan experience with a character around 4th level. We all like to believe Conan is way more powerful than that, because we like him, but the stories are in line with a low level game.

Not to mention, nothing is stopping me from having few enough wizards in my game to keep magic magical, or having elements of romance, staying away from the end of the world scenario.

- John

See I think M&M combined with W&W would emulate the genre very well. M&M is very scalable. You can play anything from gritty Phantom/Shadow/Batman/Green Arrow type street level characters to cosmic scale superman characters. So you could replicate very easily that Conan is a bad man. But a group of soldiers is a major threat or challenge.

It seems a bad idea to have not made it a self-contained game, that runs on the basic M&M mechanics, rather than a sourcebook that requires that people buy a superhero game they might not want.
Of course, it also seems weird that they'd even bother to do this sort of thing if they already publish True20, which really ought to be an ideal Sword & Sorcery game, if only they'd actually get off their ass and make a decent Sword & Sorcery theme/setting book for it.

RPGPundit

I can't believe you just said something nice about True20. That breaks a two year streak. You are getting soft.

Quote from: Aos;295529I can't believe you just said something nice about True20. That breaks a two year streak. You are getting soft.

What a Puss.

I never got what the big thin about True20 was. It never seemed simpler enough compared to D20 to justify changing one for the other (assuming you are running D20 in the first place). And the wounds system that requires extra dice rolls seem uselessly time-consuming compared to normal HP.

The wound system doesn't require extra dice rolls.  It substitutes a damage save for a damage roll.
Beyond that,  character generation and leveling up are a breeze. It seems way simpler than standard D20 to me. Also witht he revised system, or witht e companion you can create campaign specific character classes (roles in True20) in minutes.

Hi guys.

I'm one of the authors of Warriors & Warlocks.

While it would have made a great stand-alone game, I think it works well as part of the comicbook genre supplements for mutants and masterminds along with Noir, Golden Age, Iron Age and the upcoming Mecha & Magna and Silver Age books.

In a way Mutants and Masterminds has been evolving from a "superhero rpg" into more of a broader "comicbook rpg" with some of its newer supplements and expansions.

I'm also a big True20 fan/writer, and will probably use Warriors and Warlocks material with both True20 and Mutants and Masterminds in my personal sword and sorcery gaming, depending on whether I want to evoke the feel of s&s novels/pulps like the original Conan stories, or if I want to emulate sword and sorcery style comics (Conan, Red Sonya, Slaine, Warlord, Battlechasers, Death Dealer and so on).

I have limited internet access over Easter weekend, but I'll try to answer any questions anyone might care to ask me.

Quote from: Aos;295552The wound system doesn't require extra dice rolls.  It substitutes a damage save for a damage roll.

Sorry, my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote from: Aos;295552Beyond that,  character generation and leveling up are a breeze. It seems way simpler than standard D20 to me. Also witht he revised system, or witht e companion you can create campaign specific character classes (roles in True20) in minutes.

Leveling up does seem to be a breeze but chargen is not simpler than in D20 since the player gets to choose everything, has a pool of 150 points to spend, craploads of choices to make and is effectively making a level 10 character.

Not that I think choice is bad per se, but my experiences with pathological undecisive players and/or low skills at basic math have made me weary of the type of chargen M&M provides...it usualy just takes too fecking long, specialy with only one rulebook around the table. Now, if M&M also had a random chargen system...

(please don't tell me it has one and I missed it... )

I am sure after you master the system making a M&M PC might be quite easy, but can say that for most games anyway...

Quote from: ConanMK;295609While it would have made a great stand-alone game, I think it works well as part of the comicbook genre supplements for mutants and masterminds along with Noir, Golden Age, Iron Age and the upcoming Mecha & Magna and Silver Age books.

I fail to understand your rationale Mr. ConanMK. Why would W&W not be "a part of the comicbook genre supplements for mutants and masterminds along with Noir, Golden Age, Iron Age and the upcoming Mecha & Magna and Silver Age books" had it been released has a self-contained product? Would it suddenly loose its compatibility with all of the above?

Quote from: ConanMK;295609In a way Mutants and Masterminds has been evolving from a "superhero rpg" into more of a broader "comicbook rpg" with some of its newer supplements and expansions.

Fair enough...but what if we aren't interested in "comicbook rpgs", only on S&S?

Quote from: ConanMK;295609I'm also a big True20 fan/writer, and will probably use Warriors and Warlocks material with both True20 and Mutants and Masterminds in my personal sword and sorcery gaming...

You see here we have another difference of attitude. I don't like having to consult and carry around several books, I like self contained RPGs a la Call of Cthulhu

But I guess that policy is less lucrative...have you checked our "Industry Supplement Mill" thread, perchance?

Quote from: ConanMK;295609I have limited internet access over Easter weekend, but I'll try to answer any questions anyone might care to ask me.

My only real question goes back to the original post.

Why Elves?

The only reason I can see for inclusion of High fantasy races Like elves, gnomes and halflings etc. is that Green Ronin was trying to scoop in the High Fantasy crowd who are always asking for a FRPG version of M&M?

I did notice that the S&S backgrounds chapter included the D&D Comics in their S&S history lesson, which I found odd, but then it made sense in a way as a set up for the fact that in later chapter High fantasy races were introduced.

I chalk it up as a difference of opinion as to what works constitute inclusion in a product that markets itself as "Sword & Sorcery" rather than "Fantasy."

Quote from: Aos;295529I can't believe you just said something nice about True20. That breaks a two year streak. You are getting soft.

I love True20 (the system); I ran two very long campaigns with it (one that used its iteration in Blue Rose, the other that used it in the PDF version).

What I don't like is how Green Ronin has consistently failed to make good use of it, over and over again.

RPGPundit

Thanks for sharing with us, Conan.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Edsan;295620I fail to understand your rationale Mr. ConanMK. Why would W&W not be "a part of the comicbook genre supplements for mutants and masterminds along with Noir, Golden Age, Iron Age and the upcoming Mecha & Magna and Silver Age books" had it been released has a self-contained product? Would it suddenly loose its compatibility with all of the above?

If you are asking why it wasn't stand-alone, I can't give you the rationale because it was not my choice to make. If I had been the developer I would probably have gone the stand-alone route.

I was simply saying that while it isn't stand-alone, I think the format it is in has its advantages. As a standalone product it would have had a chance to draw in more customers who don't already play M&M. As a supplement it allows M&M players to pick it up without reprinting the core rules.

Quote from: Edsan;295620Fair enough...but what if we aren't interested in "comicbook rpgs", only on S&S?

As stated earlier, I agree with you that doing this book as a stand-alone might have been a better format. However getting Mutants and Masterminds and Warriors and Warlocks is still worth it for S&S fans IMHO. D&D requires three core books to play, so requiring two books for Warriors and Warlocks probably isn't that big of a deal to most gamers. Obviously this may be a deal-breaker for some, and they have other games to choose from, but if you want flexible point based sword and sorcery action with familiar d20 rules, Warriors and Warlocks is a good contender.

Quote from: Edsan;295620You see here we have another difference of attitude. I don't like having to consult and carry around several books, I like self contained RPGs a la Call of Cthulhu

But I guess that policy is less lucrative...have you checked our "Industry Supplement Mill" thread, perchance?

Our attitudes are not as different as you think. I love self-contained books as well. However, as a gamer, I also like at least a few supplements. Call of Cthulhu has a number of great supplements.

The supplement treadmill is a strange thing. Too many supplements and options can make a game seem intimidating or raise the apparent cost of the initial buy-in, but many gamers seem unwilling to play a game that doesn't have a constant stream of new material being published for it. For reasons I don't fully understand, many gamers will declare a game "unsupported" and "dead" as soon as the supplements stop being published. The supplement treadmill is almost as much a construct of the buying habits and attitudes of gamers as it is of the publishers. Even Call of Cthulhu takes part in the supplement treadmill.

Ironically, because Warriors and Warlocks is itself a supplement for Mutants and Masterminds, it will probably avoid the supplement treadmill. Sure, tons of supplements will be produced for Mutants and Masterminds, but most of them won't be geared specifically towards Warriors and Warlocks.

Quote from: The Evil DM;295622My only real question goes back to the original post.

Why Elves?

The only reason I can see for inclusion of High fantasy races Like elves, gnomes and halflings etc. is that Green Ronin was trying to scoop in the High Fantasy crowd who are always asking for a FRPG version of M&M?

I did notice that the S&S backgrounds chapter included the D&D Comics in their S&S history lesson, which I found odd, but then it made sense in a way as a set up for the fact that in later chapter High fantasy races were introduced.

I chalk it up as a difference of opinion as to what works constitute inclusion in a product that markets itself as "Sword & Sorcery" rather than "Fantasy."

True they are more at home in high fantasy than sword and sorcery.

Elves and dwarves were included for much the same reasons they were included in D&D by Gygax... because they are popular/in demand and for inclusiveness reasons.

Warriors and Warlocks expands Mutants and Masterminds into the comicbook fantasy genre. It focuses primarily on sword and sorcery style comics, but in places it briefly touches upon other types of fantasy, most notably some mentions of sword & planet.

Quote from: Edsan;295619Sorry, my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.



Leveling up does seem to be a breeze but chargen is not simpler than in D20 since the player gets to choose everything, has a pool of 150 points to spend, craploads of choices to make and is effectively making a level 10 character.

Not that I think choice is bad per se, but my experiences with pathological undecisive players and/or low skills at basic math have made me weary of the type of chargen M&M provides...it usualy just takes too fecking long, specialy with only one rulebook around the table. Now, if M&M also had a random chargen system...

(please don't tell me it has one and I missed it... )

I am sure after you master the system making a M&M PC might be quite easy, but can say that for most games anyway...

I'm sorry, I think I've dropped the ball somewhere- I was speaking specifically in response to your comments about True20- in post 20. M&M character Gen is indeed a nightmare.