Maybe it was the adrenaline rush from being in a catastrophic flood zone, but I started to warm up to both Mongoose Traveller and D&D 4e this weekend.  With half the city still non-functional on Sunday, I headed out to Barnes and Noble to check out the RPG section just as a way to get out of my house (having been effectively trapped there for days).

I wasn't surprised to see D&D 4 there (though I was surprised to see how many copies they had).  I was surprised to see Mongoose Traveller there (especially since their website said it wasn't in stock in that store).

It was my first chance to read through Traveller.  I never really got into Traveller before, and both the Mongoose previews and the playtest reports left me cold.  But once I actually got a chance to look through the book, I liked it.  It seemed like a pretty good, self-contained book.  Ideas of converting Star Frontiers concepts over to it began to fill my brain.  So despite the fact that Mongoose overprices their books, I decided to buy it anyways.

Then came the D&D books.  I hated nearly everything I've ever read online about 4e.  I'd even skimmed through the electronic versions just to get an idea of how they turned out, and wasn't overly impressed.

But actually being able to read through them in the store - I was struck by two things: first, the books are spectacular looking IMO.  Second, I started to get into the mindset Spinachat advised about treating it like a new game - a tactical skirmish hybrid game, and not a new version of D&D.

And at the risk of hearing Seanchai crow on about "I told you so", I admit, I decided to go ahead and buy them (online, though, not in the store - I'm not spending more than I have to).  If I end up actually using them (always a risk with new game purchases), it will be as a Heroscape / Warhammer Quest style of one-shot games.  I'm still not interested in traditional RPG style gaming with that kind of system.  The last laugh is still on WotC, though, I'm going to use Heroscape minis instead of D&D minis.  


So what's my point?  I suppose its that you can form one opinion based on the information you get online, but it seems like I can't really gauge whether or not I like a game until I see it in person (since I had a similar feeling towards Dark Heresy before I saw it and instantly decided it rocked).  All the more reason we still need gaming stores (or in my case, bookstores with gaming sections).


PS - What is up with the game called Demon Hunter by MWP?  B&N had a few copies at the store, so I looked at it, too.  It looked like a cheap knockoff of WW.  I assume it's something of a parody ("World of Dimness" and all that), but I didn't find it very humorous, either.

Quote from: jgants;217208And at the risk of hearing Seanchai crow on about "I told you so", I admit, I decided to go ahead and buy them (online, though, not in the store - I'm not spending more than I have to).

Naw. I say, "Good for you! Look 'em over and see what you think."

Now Sacrifical Lamb's predictions about Pathfinder - that I'll crow about.

Seanchai

Quote from: jgants;217208PS - What is up with the game called Demon Hunter by MWP?  B&N had a few copies at the store, so I looked at it, too.  It looked like a cheap knockoff of WW.  I assume it's something of a parody ("World of Dimness" and all that), but I didn't find it very humorous, either.

It's based on a couple of movies by some gamer dudes. The movies, as I understand them, basically spoofs.

I passed on it.

Seanchai

Mongoose Traveller! And soon, Hammers Slammers!

There is supposed to be Traveller adventures in their free mag.

I want to invent a machine that gives me 10 bucks each time a gamer makes a stand and later does the proverbial 180 degree  

Quote from: jgants;217208Then came the D&D books.  I hated nearly everything I've ever read online about 4e.  I'd even skimmed through the electronic versions just to get an idea of how they turned out, and wasn't overly impressed.

But actually being able to read through them in the store - I was struck by two things: first, the books are spectacular looking IMO.  Second, I started to get into the mindset Spinachat advised about treating it like a new game - a tactical skirmish hybrid game, and not a new version of D&D.

Actually, because of Spinachcat's and TonyLB's posts, I approached D&D4 as a new version of D&D.  And I've been very happy with that view of the game.

Then again, I'm sure you know that I was never fond of D&D3.  D&D3 has never felt like D&D to me.  

I don't understand the aversion to miniatures.  Then again, two of my favorite games are Mekton and Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP),games which heavily rely on miniatures.  And since I LOVE videogames like Shining Force and Final Fantasy Tactics, I'm glad to see D&D actually adopting some of the improvements these types of electronic games have made to the RPG combat formula.

Quote from: Consonant Dude;217334I want to invent a machine that gives me 10 bucks each time a gamer makes a stand and later does the proverbial 180 degree  

I'm only admitting to a 90 degree turn.  OK, maybe 135 degrees.  

Quote from: Gabriel2;217347Actually, because of Spinachcat's and TonyLB's posts, I approached D&D4 as a new version of D&D.  And I've been very happy with that view of the game.

Then again, I'm sure you know that I was never fond of D&D3.  D&D3 has never felt like D&D to me.

I never liked D&D 3.X, either (and never did buy it).  But D&D 4 still doesn't feel like D&D to me, either - nor do I feel it comes closer that 3.X did.  For me, C&C comes closer than either of them (though I do find it a bit flawed, so it's still not exactly what I'm looking for).

I do think D&D 4 has an advantage over 3.X in that it doesn't attempt to try and make massive changes while trying to adhere to a lot of older conventions (sort of a worst of both worlds approach, IMO).  Which is why I can appreciate D&D 4 as some kind of new game, but have no interest whatsoever in Pathfinder.

Quote from: Gabriel2;217347I don't understand the aversion to miniatures.  Then again, two of my favorite games are Mekton and Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP),games which heavily rely on miniatures.  And since I LOVE videogames like Shining Force and Final Fantasy Tactics, I'm glad to see D&D actually adopting some of the improvements these types of electronic games have made to the RPG combat formula.

I like RPGs.  I like minis games.  For some reason, I don't like them together.  Breaking out the minis kill the immersion / imagination fun I get from RPGs, while RPGs tend to move too slow and be too limited so as to kill the fun I get from minis.  To me, they go together like peanut butter and pickles, not peanut butter and chocolate.