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Author Topic: [Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?  (Read 3456 times)

Dr Rotwang!

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2007, 03:21:57 PM »
OK, how 'bout this.

Bill, talk about whatever games you want.  Anyone wants to chime in, they'll chime in.  Anyone wants to jump your case, shame on them.
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Koltar

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2007, 03:40:57 PM »
Its about squirrels atracking a dog - right?
  I got that correct?

 Thats the LEAST naval-gazing thing that I've ever heard of.

Its right up there with the Snits vs. the Blotamus or even "Awful Green things from Outer Space".

 Bill - relax man. From what I can tell the "swine" are supposed to be , you seem to be one of the least swiney.

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Simon W

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2007, 03:50:00 PM »
Well, two of the games I designed are Tales from The Wood and It's a Dog's Life (respectively woodland creatures and prairie dogs) so I say carry on doing what it is you are doing.

flyingmice

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2007, 04:02:12 PM »
Quote from: Simon W
Well, two of the games I designed are Tales from The Wood and It's a Dog's Life (respectively woodland creatures and prairie dogs) so I say carry on doing what it is you are doing.


Hi Simon! Aren't you the guy who wrote "Lashings of Ginger Beer"?

Do these games you mentioned attract an abnormal amount of women? I'm working on a theory...

:D

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HinterWelt

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2007, 05:00:32 PM »
Quote from: Simon W
Well, two of the games I designed are Tales from The Wood and It's a Dog's Life (respectively woodland creatures and prairie dogs) so I say carry on doing what it is you are doing.

Either we have chatted on RPG.Net or a lot of people were comparing SA! to Tales from the Wood. So, for my part, I welcome any and all comments from you and your perspective on this situation and SA! (BTW-If you do not have a copy please let me know and I can at least send you the PDF).

To Clash, oh, I am not worried about having my feelings hurt and storming off. I am more concerned with if those 2-3 people have their way, only people who believe in thier manifesto will sign up. Thus, shaping the community falls to the people at the extremes. This is no different than if it was an extreme form of acceptance. I do not think the RPGSite should be all inclusive from a topics point of view. I do not come here to discuss movies or cooking. Yeah, a thread or two swapping gamer recipes is one thing, a forum dedicated to techniques on gay love I do not have interest in.

So, perhaps my initial post sounded like "Poor me" but what I was hoping for was more "Hmm, maybe he has a point" or "The man is crazy". I usually get the latter.

So, no one else sees a problem? We are scaring off the right folks? We are limiting the discussion in the desired manner? We are excluding the bad people while drawing the good people? Those aren't rhetoric questions, honest, I might just be jumping at ghosts here.

Bill
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flyingmice

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2007, 05:18:37 PM »
Quote from: HinterWelt

So, no one else sees a problem?

We are scaring off the right folks?

We are limiting the discussion in the desired manner?

We are excluding the bad people while drawing the good people?
Bill


I see a problem! The only thing I can do about it is call it when I see it. Some folks are getting seriously paranoid, and are hitting the other side back first. pre-emptive retaliatory strikes, as it were. Unfortunately, that's like saying you're sorry after your dog chewed up a baby. It just doesn't cut it. We need to reach some kind of consensus on this stuff. No top-down solution is coming, and it isn't desirable anyway. That way lies the Big Purple.

-clash
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Simon W

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2007, 05:24:44 PM »
Quote from: flyingmice
Hi Simon! Aren't you the guy who wrote "Lashings of Ginger Beer"?

Do these games you mentioned attract an abnormal amount of women? I'm working on a theory...

:D

-clash


Hi Clash,

yes I did (write Lashings of Ginger Beer)

and yes they do seem to (attract women, I mean - my g/f, who never role-played before got into it by playing Tales from The Wood and It's a Dog's Life - now she plays more or less anything).

I'm just about to get my copy of In Harm's Way from LULU, btw. I'm a great fan of Ramage, Bolitho, DeLancey and Hornblower (and historical gaming in general).

J Arcane

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2007, 05:26:43 PM »
Quote
So, no one else sees a problem?


Of course I see a problem.  I just also see that the only solution is for good folks to just keep talking about games, and leave the loonies to dig their own graves.

I had my fill of trying to argue with psychotics, then I realized that it was futile, and that their idiocy was so ridiculous on it's face that it really parodies itself without any outside interference.

People like that crave attention more than anything else, and if you give it to them, it only feeds their idiocy.  It doesn't matter what the attention is, even if it's an attempt to upbraid them for their asinine behavior, because all that does is stroke their egos and let them play the martyr.

If you want to be more proactive in dealing with situations like VBWyrde's arrival, send them a PM warning them of the futility of engaging with the local rabid weasel patrol.  I myself gave him exactly the advice I'm giving you now in the #rpgnet IRC.

There is good discussion here, it's just that, like most unmoderated forums, there's shit one must learn to avoid.  But it doesn't really help to feed the shit.
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Simon W

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2007, 05:29:24 PM »
Quote from: HinterWelt
Either we have chatted on RPG.Net or a lot of people were comparing SA! to Tales from the Wood. So, for my part, I welcome any and all comments from you and your perspective on this situation and SA! (BTW-If you do not have a copy please let me know and I can at least send you the PDF).

Bill


I guess that's bound to happen, given our two games' subject matter. No, I don't have SA, I'm happy to trade you, if you like.

Simon W

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2007, 05:59:47 PM »
I'm guessing that by Wanker-Naval Gazing, you mean games that are less about playing the game and more about either the "art" of designing largely unplayable games with an extremely narrow focus and mechanics written to elicit fawning admiration rather than with the idea of simply playing the game.

If that is the case, then I don't believe either Squirrel Attack! (or any of my games) fall into that category.

I wrote my games because they interested me. They were designed to be played by me and my friends. The fact that they enjoyed playing them made me want to offer them outside of my group.

They are playable games with fairly traditional mechanics but unusual subject matter. I don't care that not everyone will want to play them and some people won't understand the interest in them. Whilst, those people are not my target audience, they would still recognise them as role-playing games.

Kyle Aaron

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2007, 06:08:34 PM »
Quote from: joewolz
I think there should be a more tolerant attitude here on some sorts of games.  This place should have been a place where one can talk about RPGs and not be censored for speaking one's mind.  
I don't think anyone's censored, nor are "non-trad" rpgs put down as specific games, only vaguely and generally. If you talk breathlessly about your fun Dogs in the Vineyard or Polaris session, I'm pretty sure no-one's going to threadcrap.

I think there's a lot of self-censoring going on. "I don't like your attitude to X, so I'm not going to talk about X" people say - to themselves, before they even post anything or actually discover what the attitude to X is.

Just talk about what you want to talk about. When it comes to talking generally about different kinds of rpgs, your "non-trad" rpgs get a lot of abuse, sure. But if you talk about some specific game, whether it's one you played or one you're developing, you'll be able to have a good discussion with no-one threadcrapping, I reckon.

Remember that the biggest shitstorms here have been about people - "my GM/players are a pain", "you must be a fuckstick then", etc. I've yet to see a Dogs in the Vineyard flamewar here.
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Hackmaster

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2007, 07:04:47 PM »
Quote from: HinterWelt
O.k. So one of my most successful games is Squirrel Attack! It does not follow what seems to be "acceptable" around here in terms of game style. I was wondering if it (and I) fall into "wanker naval gazing" category and should "go away".

So, to sum up the questions:
1. Is a game about squirrels, with the above clarifications, unacceptable subject matter (since there are apparently acceptable and not acceptable) for discussion and inclusion on the RPGSite?

2. What the hell are non-trad/"wanker naval gazing" games anyway?
2a. Examples of mechanics or setting that make them so please.

Thank you for your time.

Bill


If it's a roleplaying game, it's acceptable.

I have no idea what wanker naval gazing is.

If you started a post about a squirrel RPG, I'd probably just move along quietly. If you started a post about a new modern conspiracy/horror RPG, I'd be interested. Just because I'm not interested doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about whatever you want.

Because people have a lot of leeway to say whatever the heck they want here, there are a lot of abrasive posts, especially toward non-traditional games. I try to just ignore it.

Keep the faith.
 

Sacrificial Lamb

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2007, 07:20:57 PM »
Bill, if you wish to stay and discuss your most successful game from time to time, that's cool. Of course, it might be because squirrels crack me up. :)

If this thread is any indication, you'll be fine here.

HinterWelt

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2007, 07:46:42 PM »
Quote from: GoOrange

If you started a post about a squirrel RPG, I'd probably just move along quietly. If you started a post about a new modern conspiracy/horror RPG, I'd be interested. Just because I'm not interested doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about whatever you want.

Because people have a lot of leeway to say whatever the heck they want here, there are a lot of abrasive posts, especially toward non-traditional games. I try to just ignore it.

Keep the faith.

I want to emphasize something, I am not saying we must have discussion at gun point, just wondering if we, as a community, are moving towards the stated goals (mission statement) or towards an exclusive culture ("They" should be punished for bringing the "war" here).

At no point do I think (and you have not implied this) that moderation is the answer either. As Clash has said, you can stand up for what you want in life or you can run away. This is my way of standing up and saying "Do you think there is a problem"? If so, we should be vigilant and tell these folks that are wrong. Fight as hard for the new guy/"indie" game/whatever as they to to drive off those they find undesirable. I am heartened by many of the responses in this thread.

Bill
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HinterWelt

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[Wanker Naval Gazing] Do I make such games?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2007, 07:48:13 PM »
Quote from: Simon W
I guess that's bound to happen, given our two games' subject matter. No, I don't have SA, I'm happy to trade you, if you like.

Simon,
email me at bilbo@hinterwelt.com with the email I should send a comp copy to and I will get you set up. I am always interested in looking at new games.

Thanks,
Bill
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When you look around you have to wonder,
Do you play to win or are you just a bad loser?