Quote from: CTPhipps;1064879the people who would have their struggle discredited.

Yes, we have to make sure that the real world people that might otherwise help these suffering folks are not led astray into believing that vampires are the cause of it all. I don't know how many times I've let others suffer IRL when I figured vampires must be behind it and just blew it off...

Quote from: CTPhipps;1064879Mind you, they had a good reason beyond this.

The Chechnyan government, I shit you not, were using it to claim the West were using propaganda to frame the country for atrocities.

And this matters to us how? Most anti-Western nations say tons of horrible stuff about "the West" to justify their own authoritarian prerogatives as they crackdown on their own people.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1064879And the White Wolf distributors in Russia were threatened with jail time.

Then perhaps they should not market their products in a nation that, you know, perpetrates these kinds of things?

Quote from: CTPhipps;1064879Not to mention a certain author lives in Russia.

Mark isn't stupid. He knew the effects of the Super-sauce before he drank it. And for accuracy - he's in Georgia. Which has it's issues, yep.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1064879This is a safety issue as well.....for not just WW staff but the people who would have their struggle discredited.

Well... look... at *what* point does one promise to create a fantasy-pretend-game based on real-world issues and not come to realize that years into the process you might irritate some people? Wasn't that the entire point of the endeavor? SOMEONE is going to be the bad-guy. Unless you're a moral-relativist, this is an objective fact that horrifying shit is going on around the world. It's certainly not a crime to give any of that game-relevance - if indeed that was the intent. If you succumb to this level of outrage you're now implying *any* form of modern history that produces dark results ought to be subject to censorship.

Who gets to make that call precisely in the name of good taste? What *isn't* objectionable?

Edit: I'm not attacking you or anything CT. I'm just talkin.

I just am concerned for the people there.

The article did bring a lot of attention to the struggle, though.

But I worry for people I actually know there (specifcally Mark).

And it's disgusting how many fans are like, "YES! WHITE WOLF'S EDGELORDS ARE DONE WITH! ONYX PATH WILL BE THE NEW DEVELOPERS!"

Which...yes, they will be but PERSPECTIVE people.

The end result of this will be the stake in the heart of the IP.


It may not kill Vampire (stakes just paralyze), but paralysis may as well be market-death.

Quote from: tenbones;1064891The end result of this will be the stake in the heart of the IP.


It may not kill Vampire (stakes just paralyze), but paralysis may as well be market-death.

I'm doubting that.

1. Tabletop games aren't the point. The Vampire: The Masquerade TV series in development with Showtime and the planned trilogy of video games is.

2. They've more or less said they're just going to let Onyx Path do whatever the hell they want. So they're celebrating there like in the Producers.

Chicago by Night will probably be a soft reboot of 5E.

I've already read most of that book and they tone down or ignore most of the metaplot.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1064893I'm doubting that.

1. Tabletop games aren't the point. The Vampire: The Masquerade TV series in development with Showtime and the planned trilogy of video games is.

2. They've more or less said they're just going to let Onyx Path do whatever the hell they want. So they're celebrating there like in the Producers.

Chicago by Night will probably be a soft reboot of 5E.

I've already read most of that book and they tone down or ignore most of the metaplot.

1) I do not count on this. Hollywood is notoriously fickle- and given the PC issues on this alone concerning the IP... I could *easily* see this getting dropped or put in development hell. In fact, I'm willing to bet on it (any takers? A nice gentleperson's bet of a set of dice?)

2) Onyx Path have not been good for the WoD IP imo. I say that as someone that owns most of the entire OP catalog up to Demon. Letting them do "whatever the Hell they want" makes me chuckle at the possibilities that doesn't bode well for the future of my purchases for WoD stuff. In fact, it pretty much renders the possibility next to nil, for various reasons, not the least of which has to do with their design.

But more power to them and those that love their stuff.

I'm asking for a refund of my pre order of the elder set.  OPP has been very open that they dont want me as their customer.

Changeling is not Mage, by the way. Mage is about Traditions and the Technocracy. Changenling is about Kiths and the coming of Endless Winter banality. Changeling actually 'wuvs da science'. In fact, the Moon Landing was a massive Dreaming event that briefly allowed Arcadia to open up to Earth and pour out the modern Sidhe kith. Basically mankind was so enamored and awed it broke down Banality walls and poured forth some Moon Elves.

And yes, the cards from 1e do work, too. You just have a kitchen sink worth of factional frictions to play out and must be choosy in running your table.

Quote from: tenbones;1064891The end result of this will be the stake in the heart of the IP.


It may not kill Vampire (stakes just paralyze), but paralysis may as well be market-death.

Well the VtES CCG keeps bouncing in and out of torpor, so why not the RPG? Who wants to attempt diablerie? The fans may have Eyes of the Dead in hand (a really niche anti-diablerie shitty card), who wants to risk it?

I hope the dude that got this all started is happy that he pretty much killed the refresh of WoD.

Eh, the Glorious Moral Revolution hasn't arrived to confiscate my WW 1e books, so I ain't bothered.

But maybe there might be self reflection among the Storyteller community that there is gangrene among their "super-fandom" number. ... bwa ha ha ha ha! Oh lord, I just don't have that good of a poker face!

Quote from: Lurtch;1064930I hope the dude that got this all started is happy that he pretty much killed the refresh of WoD.

If you mean me:

1. Apparently, the dude that did this was some dude in Russia as it wasn't me that caused the shitstorm. I think my petition got 100 signatures total before I pulled it.

2. It's being "killed" by being given to Onyx Path. They're correcting the shitty typos and errors in the books and re-releasing them anyway. The Camarilla will just be out in February, not December.

3. The Sabbat book is cancelled but it will probably be done by someone else now instead of WW. It was the last book they planned to publish anyway.

4. The author (who is not hard to figure out the identity of) fucking hated the edit of it, which ruined the intent of his story to bring attention to the atrocity.

The Chechnyan response and Russian were HUGE as well because I think someone forgot that Vampire: The Masquerade in Russia is like Starcraft in Korea. A major reason why the "Golden Age of White Wolf" sales have been being consistently reached.

Here's a Crimean newspaper talking about it.

https://en.crimerussia.com/gromkie-dela/chechens-hate-vampire-the-masquerade-game-for-sultan-ramzan-character/?fbclid=IwAR2ibGrSgZHEnX8u8ZbyX__h1a-3_bWMB3BT0BNlfzSlC5A9Qk54yrTWMBM

OPP taking over the line means the line us going to stall and never get out if the mud. The OPP crew are toxic gatekeepers that will damage the ability to broaden the players for the game.

Quote from: Lurtch;1064941OPP taking over the line means the line us going to stall and never get out if the mud. The OPP crew are toxic gatekeepers that will damage the ability to broaden the players for the game.

Dude, you realize the people White Wolf hired to write the books they released....were the exact same people, right?

Plus Old Guard WW.

I'm sorry this entire controversy happened and am irritated everyone is dancing on the grave of White Wolf when it was a source of such joy for our hobby's enthusiasts.

Edit:

"Ironically, the LGBT community, representatives of which are being persecuted in Chechnya, are also outraged by the game about Chechen vampires. The fact is that the persecution of gays is represented as a "smart media manipulation" to divert attention from bloodsuckers. Homosexuals consider this derision immoral. Science fiction writer Charles Phipps, as well as former White Wolf collaborator, game designer Joseph Carriker, agree with them."
- I confess, today, I did not expect to be caught up in an international controversy over the depiction of gays, vampires, and state sponsored torture in roleplaying games.

https://en.crimerussia.com/gromkie-dela/chechens-hate-vampire-the-masquerade-game-for-sultan-ramzan-character/?fbclid=IwAR2ibGrSgZHEnX8u8ZbyX__h1a-3_bWMB3BT0BNlfzSlC5A9Qk54yrTWMBM

Guess who is back?

Oh man after reading this fail train to its eventual crash is entertaining.  Nice to see another company utterly fail and give Onyx Path the wreckage as if it was gold.