Quote from: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 09:36:12 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on June 30, 2021, 03:56:13 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 12:25:07 AM
LOL.

There clearly needs to be Make Fantasy Great Again OSR RPG Con.

No need to limit it to just Fantasy. There's plenty of good non-woke rpg of numerous genres out there. Limiting it to JUST Fantasy or just OSR is just playing to the Woke divide-and-conquer strategy.

So open it up to all non-woke games/players and call it the "Make Adventuring Great Again Convention" or MAGACon for short. 

He's probably right.

I'm partial to OSR-only cons because I'd love a small 300-500 person gathering.

However, MAGAcon might attract a few thousand in a red state that Trump won...like Georgia or Arizona.

I have zero idea if any of Trump's family play games. It would be a hoot to find out that Don Jr. or Eric were D&D players as teens and have them as guests of honor.

Oh, the free publicity would be REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEtastic.

While I appreciate the barb about the states the 45th President actually won, I'd lean towards Indianapolis because Indiana is a solid red state in the Midwest that's also in the relative heartland of roleplaying and reasonably central to anyone not west of the Rockies.

It also is an opportunity to compete directly with GenCon as a "you COULD spend your money going to a convention that actually hates you... or you could spend the same money a week later to come to the same city and attend a convention that appreciates you and your values."

Plan B would be somewhere in Florida during Fall or Winter Break for obvious reasons (not least of which is little chance of some attempted Coof 2.0 lockdown happening there).

Quote from: Zelen on June 30, 2021, 10:53:43 PM
Going towards an investment model has a lot of pitfalls (including much more complex regulation) than simply selling a product to someone. To my knowledge SubscribeStar (Patreon alternative) and GiveSendGo (Kickstarter/IndieGoGo alternative) have proven censorship-resistant, so are worthwhile options for connecting people's wallets to creators & businesses.

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 06:46:59 PM
This is super easy to deal with. If you run a business or represent the business in public, don't say stupid shit to the public.

That's it. That's the only rule.

Not really unfortunately. Granted, the scope of RPGs is usually pretty small, so you're likely to run under the radar for awhile. Take a look at Amazon's media rules: You're not longer allowed to create a movie/TV product without 50% representation by women, and your product must contain every ethnicity, sexuality, furries, etc. Similar things are happening in other industries and in many cases metrics of this sort are being directly tied to viability for investments, grants, stock valuation, etc.

  I disagree about much more complex regulation.  If its a private company, and not public the regulation is not very onerous, and that largely varies as to what state you are doing business in.  I have run a couple of businesses and had investors. It was not complex at all.  Now, the people who invested and I knew each other well enough to have a level of trust and a goal as to what we were doing.  I would agree if you want to solicit 100 people for 10k each you could well be asking for a whole bunch of problems.  I just get the vibe that there impactful levels of investment for RPGs that are a good deal lower than dealing with tons of people or millions of dollars.   From what I have read so far, perhaps the best investment would be a distribution hub for products.  It would largely lower the financial burden for the person owning the majority of the company, allow some time for revenue to generate (trying to make money in a very short time frame creates a ton of stress IME) and can lighten a load substantially regarding work and stress on such a project.

Quote from: oggsmash on June 30, 2021, 08:53:49 PM

  It seems the server load/size of a patreon-like platform would have more issues and work than a sales portal/site.  I feel an on site server is a better path than hosting and cloud resources (since the biggest game in town has a directly competing business, and loves to kill comp it doesnt look to me they would have to look hard for reasons to shut you down) but I do see where it is going to take time to recoup those costs.   100k doesnt seem that bad at all, and in the ballpark of what I expected.  I do have some worries about outsource talent bickering about who can be put on the same "shelf" with them and looking to toss flak at a provider (one talent trying to get a mob up around a site hosting an "untouchable"), but I have no idea how real a problem that is.

For servers, it is more that you need a certain amount of overhead on hardware and software, which expands because you need multiple servers for security and redundancy.  Hard drives are cheap.  RAM isn't much worse.  Once you have enough volume, that doesn't matter.  It does make it difficult to get started.  One option would be to start cloud but with a clear plan to move onto your own servers once the volume warranted. 

Note that the 50K to 100K estimate is for what it would take NOT dealing with all the work-arounds for the woke canceling.  Protecting yourself against that is going to hurt. 

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 09:15:24 AM
Plan B would be somewhere in Florida during Fall or Winter Break for obvious reasons (not least of which is little chance of some attempted Coof 2.0 lockdown happening there).

Panhandle the week  after the super bowl.  Cheapest rates all year, wonderful weather, least crowds. 

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on July 01, 2021, 09:32:40 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on June 30, 2021, 08:53:49 PM

  It seems the server load/size of a patreon-like platform would have more issues and work than a sales portal/site.  I feel an on site server is a better path than hosting and cloud resources (since the biggest game in town has a directly competing business, and loves to kill comp it doesnt look to me they would have to look hard for reasons to shut you down) but I do see where it is going to take time to recoup those costs.   100k doesnt seem that bad at all, and in the ballpark of what I expected.  I do have some worries about outsource talent bickering about who can be put on the same "shelf" with them and looking to toss flak at a provider (one talent trying to get a mob up around a site hosting an "untouchable"), but I have no idea how real a problem that is.

For servers, it is more that you need a certain amount of overhead on hardware and software, which expands because you need multiple servers for security and redundancy.  Hard drives are cheap.  RAM isn't much worse.  Once you have enough volume, that doesn't matter.  It does make it difficult to get started.  One option would be to start cloud but with a clear plan to move onto your own servers once the volume warranted. 

Note that the 50K to 100K estimate is for what it would take NOT dealing with all the work-arounds for the woke canceling.  Protecting yourself against that is going to hurt.

   I think the good news on that one is it would take a while for any twitterati to come looking to cancel, and early on its not likely to have any teeth.  Of course success would bring rats, but if you have success some more woke proofing can be done.  Mostly this is an intellectual exercise, but I do see a whole lot of grumbling about these sorts of things, and no one working towards a solution; which at this point does look a bit like creating that second economy.

Lots of grumbling rather than acting is a symptom of the present political/economic uncertainty.

Depending on how certain things spin out you could have anything from "economic downturn/hyperinflation" to "Constitutional sanctuary states" to "extreme federalism" to "de facto secession" to "actual secession" and who knows which areas will be which and how long that situation might continue.

In that atmosphere "Alternate shielded from Big Tech cancellation RPG distribution hub" doesn't seem like any kind of good investment... and by the time the uncertainty has past, the whole cancel culture movement might be gone with it.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 09:15:24 AM
It also is an opportunity to compete directly with GenCon as a "you COULD spend your money going to a convention that actually hates you... or you could spend the same money a week later to come to the same city and attend a convention that appreciates you and your values."

I recognize the meme value of a MAGA convention, but I'd much prefer a non-political convention myself.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 09:51:31 AM
Lots of grumbling rather than acting is a symptom of the present political/economic uncertainty.

Depending on how certain things spin out you could have anything from "economic downturn/hyperinflation" to "Constitutional sanctuary states" to "extreme federalism" to "de facto secession" to "actual secession" and who knows which areas will be which and how long that situation might continue.

In that atmosphere "Alternate shielded from Big Tech cancellation RPG distribution hub" doesn't seem like any kind of good investment... and by the time the uncertainty has past, the whole cancel culture movement might be gone with it.

  Oh I know, I am always one to try to weigh caution versus bold.  I tend towards over bold, and that is not always good, but IME over meek/cautious is not a quality either, more a flaw.   Edited to add: for sure we are borderline clown world.  When people can make an easy 3-4k a week watching crypto flash crash down and just toss money in darn near any altcoin you want and just swing trade it, things are nuts.

Quote from: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
Andrew Torba, the founder of Gab, talks extensively about the need for a separate economy and he's working on GabTV as a "new YouTube" although there's already Rumble, Odysee and BitChute as free speech options. Mike Lindell of MyPillow is launching MyStore to create his own Amazon. Right now, MyStore looks like Amazon in its first year and we'll see what happens next.

The problem with "alternative" platforms is that they are still centrally managed. These platforms might be the current friends of free speech, but leadership and ownership change over the years, and content rules change. To wit: look what happened to John Matze. Even Google's original motto was "Don't Be Evil".

There is an answer to this problem worth embracing, which is distributed platforms. Remember when the World Wide Web was all static content and most people were mere consumers online? That was "Web 1.0". Later, we moved to a model of primarily user-generated content and interaction, and called it "Web 2.0".

Next up is Web 3.0 and it's coming. Web3 uses distributed, peer-to-peer applications, not centralized, to achieve the same stuff. In this model there is no "client" and no "server", and thus no one in a position to shut down your site. Think of Bittorrent on steroids. Content is secured by blockchains. And here's the real kicker: because web3 content can be tied to a cryptocurrency, it can effect direct payment as well. No banks, no payment processors.

The alternative video platforms that Spinachcat lists are a good example: most are still centralized. These platforms collect and store and stream your videos for you, and if they decide they don't like you some time in the future, your hard-earned fan base is wiped, and you'd better have a backup of all those videos. Odysee is the exception! While Odysee is still a centralized website, and they could, e.g., cancel your account, Odysee is actually only a portal for normal web browsers into a running, working, distributed application called LBRY, running not on HTTP like web2, but on the Interplanetary File System or IPFS (cool name right?). The content is entirely distributed, safely secured by blockchain, and your "account" and all its content still perfectly accessible, uploadable, etc., via an open-source desktop LBRY client (available for Mac, Linux, Windows).

There are also Distributed Apps (dApps) for file storage, publishing, music, and pretty much everything else. Creating a fundraising dApp is the "hello world" of blockchain contract programming. The IPFS is nascent in its popularity right now, but is definitely the roadmap for the WWW going forward.

Quote from: Pat on July 01, 2021, 09:55:20 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 09:15:24 AM
It also is an opportunity to compete directly with GenCon as a "you COULD spend your money going to a convention that actually hates you... or you could spend the same money a week later to come to the same city and attend a convention that appreciates you and your values."

I recognize the meme value of a MAGA convention, but I'd much prefer a non-political convention myself.

Non-political IS political to the Left though. "Silence IS Violence" don't you know.

There is not non-political ground left to hold. If you are not running an obese greasy non-binary dangerhair in a Woke approved campaign setting you are the enemy.

So we may as well own it. They can't hurt you if you own the downsides. The absolute best way to shut a Leftist down is to reply to their hyperbolic charges with "And?" followed by a shrug and walking away.

Claim your Con is "non-political" and the Left will demand inclusion and a voice in shaping it and then come at you for not cow towing to their every derangement and claim the whole thing is political if you don't acquiese 110% anyway.

So own it. "Heck yes, we're political! We are devoted to the radical notion that Games should be FUN and people have a right to offend your sensibilities with their free speech. Come on down and enjoy playing games that aren't struggle sessions and hanging with people who won't try to get you fired from your job for saying something without realizing some mentally ill internet toll will take offense to it five years from now when that thought becomes verboten. You might even discover you LIKE living like a normal person does."

So, yeah, I say own the downside and call it MAGACon so all the Left can do is REEE about it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 30, 2021, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 06:46:59 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on June 30, 2021, 10:56:58 AM
   It starts to look more and more like many things from food we buy to games we play are drifting towards a separate economy in how they function.  Right now, the fact is you better do as told or certain things, heck even your ability to bank can be removed.  This I do not think is sustainable, and something else is going to surface.  To this end, have any of the people who produce rpg materials made any moves towards seeking backers more in the form of actual investors versus people they presell to and offer more goodies?   

   I realize the end return for said investors is likely to be small, or something that even with a tiny fraction of a royalty may not pay off for a decade.  I also think there could be a desire among some of the people who might invest to see something being built, improved and made into something lasting (the idea of planting a tree you never get to enjoy the shade from) versus making 10 percent per year off of initial investment. 

   I get that there are crowd funding platforms, but to be honest they look as if they are going to function based off of silicone valley ideals in the longer run all the way through.  I do think the internet is a great way to network, and I wonder how many creatives/developers look for actual investment through their sites/blogs/ the internet in general.

This is super easy to deal with. If you run a business or represent the business in public, don't say stupid shit to the public.

That's it. That's the only rule.

It's the same rule which existed in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990, 2000s, and 2010s. It's just ordinary public relations. Don't say stupid shit.

And "stupid shit" has always included "stuff which is likely to alienate a meaningful portion of your customer base." If a meaningful portion of your customer base is, I don't know, afraid of the Soviet Union nuking your country, then don't say things in support of the Soviet Union (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believed). If a meaningful portion of your customer base supports gay marriage, then don't say things against gay marriage (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believe). You want to say this stuff to your friends over a beer, fine. But don't tweet it, don't post it to Facebook, don't Instagram it, don't say it in an interview, don't say it on a convention panel. This is just ordinary bog standard public relations. Your representations to your customers should not be anything political in nature which might piss off a meaningful portion of your customer base, unless you're running a political company.

Now that changes if your "branding" yourself as a right-winger or a left-winger, like a few people have done. But if that's the plan, lean into that and expect to deal with the flak from the other side. Don't say it and then puss out the moment the expected anger from the other side rears it's ugly head. Because now you're back into the "saying stupid shit" category.

And there's the major problem. The NFL can say something idiotic like "Football is Gay!" and receive very little pushback, none of it particularly troublesome. The "rules" are not consistent, because different people think different things are "stupid shit". With a very noticeable partisan leaning on certain topics.

I am sure they pissed off a meaningful portion of their customer base by doing that. And I am sure they were prepared to deal with the shit they'd get for leaning into one side. You don't see the NFL taking that position, getting shit for it, and then saying "Oh we're so sorry if we upset people with our comment" like Ernie did. Either stay out of politics to prevent pissing off a portion of your customer base, or lean into it and deal with the consequences of pissing off a portion while pleasing another portion But don't half-ass it.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 30, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
Mistwell is also forgetting that the current narrative isn't just 'don't say stupid shit'.

You must make obeisance to the proper powers. You must validate their existence. Or you are a bigot.

Not really, no. Tons of companies just don't say anything at all and have not suffered for it. In general, the best course is to just be funny about something. If you're funny in your message and demonstrate you don't take life too seriously, people just don't expect you to take a stance on a serious topic. Which includes a stance on any of these hot button political and social issues.

For example, few people would give a major car insurance company crap if they decided to simply not say anything about a hot button political or social topic, as long as they trotted out a funny gecko or Flo. Few people care what Mint Mobile or AT&T think about these topics, as long as they trot out Ryan Reynolds or the AT&T Girl. There will always be extremists who will make a fuss about everything, but as a generalization you simply don't get a meaningful portion of your customer base upset if you don't take a stance and remain light in your messaging.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: Pat on July 01, 2021, 09:55:20 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 01, 2021, 09:15:24 AM
It also is an opportunity to compete directly with GenCon as a "you COULD spend your money going to a convention that actually hates you... or you could spend the same money a week later to come to the same city and attend a convention that appreciates you and your values."

I recognize the meme value of a MAGA convention, but I'd much prefer a non-political convention myself.

Non-political IS political to the Left though. "Silence IS Violence" don't you know.

Accepting their terms is halfway to losing the battle.

Regarding the problem with their demanding inclusion and turning everything political, simply set non-political standards of civility, and boot them for being uncivil.

Quote from: Mistwell on July 01, 2021, 03:33:32 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 30, 2021, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 06:46:59 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on June 30, 2021, 10:56:58 AM
   It starts to look more and more like many things from food we buy to games we play are drifting towards a separate economy in how they function.  Right now, the fact is you better do as told or certain things, heck even your ability to bank can be removed.  This I do not think is sustainable, and something else is going to surface.  To this end, have any of the people who produce rpg materials made any moves towards seeking backers more in the form of actual investors versus people they presell to and offer more goodies?   

   I realize the end return for said investors is likely to be small, or something that even with a tiny fraction of a royalty may not pay off for a decade.  I also think there could be a desire among some of the people who might invest to see something being built, improved and made into something lasting (the idea of planting a tree you never get to enjoy the shade from) versus making 10 percent per year off of initial investment. 

   I get that there are crowd funding platforms, but to be honest they look as if they are going to function based off of silicone valley ideals in the longer run all the way through.  I do think the internet is a great way to network, and I wonder how many creatives/developers look for actual investment through their sites/blogs/ the internet in general.

This is super easy to deal with. If you run a business or represent the business in public, don't say stupid shit to the public.

That's it. That's the only rule.

It's the same rule which existed in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990, 2000s, and 2010s. It's just ordinary public relations. Don't say stupid shit.

And "stupid shit" has always included "stuff which is likely to alienate a meaningful portion of your customer base." If a meaningful portion of your customer base is, I don't know, afraid of the Soviet Union nuking your country, then don't say things in support of the Soviet Union (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believed). If a meaningful portion of your customer base supports gay marriage, then don't say things against gay marriage (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believe). You want to say this stuff to your friends over a beer, fine. But don't tweet it, don't post it to Facebook, don't Instagram it, don't say it in an interview, don't say it on a convention panel. This is just ordinary bog standard public relations. Your representations to your customers should not be anything political in nature which might piss off a meaningful portion of your customer base, unless you're running a political company.

Now that changes if your "branding" yourself as a right-winger or a left-winger, like a few people have done. But if that's the plan, lean into that and expect to deal with the flak from the other side. Don't say it and then puss out the moment the expected anger from the other side rears it's ugly head. Because now you're back into the "saying stupid shit" category.

And there's the major problem. The NFL can say something idiotic like "Football is Gay!" and receive very little pushback, none of it particularly troublesome. The "rules" are not consistent, because different people think different things are "stupid shit". With a very noticeable partisan leaning on certain topics.

I am sure they pissed off a meaningful portion of their customer base by doing that. And I am sure they were prepared to deal with the shit they'd get for leaning into one side. You don't see the NFL taking that position, getting shit for it, and then saying "Oh we're so sorry if we upset people with our comment" like Ernie did. Either stay out of politics to prevent pissing off a portion of your customer base, or lean into it and deal with the consequences of pissing off a portion while pleasing another portion But don't half-ass it.

I would agree in that Ernie apologizing accomplished the opposite of what he desired, and so it was a worthless gesture.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 30, 2021, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 06:46:59 PM
This is super easy to deal with. If you run a business or represent the business in public, don't say stupid shit to the public.

That's it. That's the only rule.

It's the same rule which existed in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990, 2000s, and 2010s. It's just ordinary public relations. Don't say stupid shit.

And "stupid shit" has always included "stuff which is likely to alienate a meaningful portion of your customer base." If a meaningful portion of your customer base is, I don't know, afraid of the Soviet Union nuking your country, then don't say things in support of the Soviet Union (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believed). If a meaningful portion of your customer base supports gay marriage, then don't say things against gay marriage (keep that to your private conversations if it's what you believe). You want to say this stuff to your friends over a beer, fine. But don't tweet it, don't post it to Facebook, don't Instagram it, don't say it in an interview, don't say it on a convention panel. This is just ordinary bog standard public relations. Your representations to your customers should not be anything political in nature which might piss off a meaningful portion of your customer base, unless you're running a political company.

Now that changes if your "branding" yourself as a right-winger or a left-winger, like a few people have done. But if that's the plan, lean into that and expect to deal with the flak from the other side. Don't say it and then puss out the moment the expected anger from the other side rears it's ugly head. Because now you're back into the "saying stupid shit" category.

And there's the major problem. The NFL can say something idiotic like "Football is Gay!" and receive very little pushback, none of it particularly troublesome. The "rules" are not consistent, because different people think different things are "stupid shit". With a very noticeable partisan leaning on certain topics.

I agree that the rules are not consistent -- but that's because people aren't consistent, and as Mistwell says, that has been the same in every decade. If the NFL had said "Football is gay" in the 1980s, then they would have gotten a lot of pushback - but times change. I think the big issue about now compared to prior decades is that some people treat social media as if it is a casual conversation like talking on a street corner, when it is really publishing to thousands or millions.

It's quite possible for people to simply not be on social media - but especially for those trying to market their products, that's missing out. But if you want to market via social media, then you need to be prepared to watch what you say and try to get in with the popular trends, or it is going to backfire on you.

Again, that's not new - but how it happens over social media is new, and what the popular trends are is new.