Quote from: Sigmund;522342True20 is good. It is bland, like any generic system will be, and it has no story game elements that I can see. The only one even close is it's "corruption" mechanic, but this is actually meant to serve more like Sanity in CoC than anything else. It represented the corruptive influence of using sorcery in Blue Rose.

Well, there is quite a bit in the Caliphate Nights bit of the book, where they let players spend conviction to temporarily take over the GM role and tell stories within the story, or define the setting as long as it doesn't contradict any already established facts. But again, that's genre emulation, not core.

Quote from: Skywalker;522462True20's best "innovation" IMO is the fact that attack and defence are now symmetrical. This is rare for a D20 derived RPG.

This allowed escalating HP to go and be replaced by Conviction to represent rising heroism and armour adding to Toughness. The result is cinematic, much like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings movies.

That and the fact that everything is feat based massively reduces the linear warrior, quadratic wizard problem. Everyone has pretty much the same number of tricks up their sleeve at a particular level, it's just a question of what kind.

Quote from: (un)reason;522472Well, there is quite a bit in the Caliphate Nights bit of the book, where they let players spend conviction to temporarily take over the GM role and tell stories within the story, or define the setting as long as it doesn't contradict any already established facts. But again, that's genre emulation, not core.

You are right, but as you also say, it's genre emulation. Also, however, the story mechanics in Caliphate Nights are not story game mechanics, they are actual story telling mechanics. Caliphate Nights has a sub system that allows the character to briefly "take control" through the act of telling a story. It's actually a kinda brilliant system and idea, if not quite my personal cup of tea. You are correct that it is more "story-gamey" than most any other d20 based mechanics. I hadn't been thinking of that because it is setting specific.

Simple and nice, with some nice optional extra systems like Conviction and Corruption etc.. I like it a lot.

BUT it's not a hot system right now, I think the wind has gone out of it's sails, it's no longer a hot system.

Quote from: tzunder;522559Simple and nice, with some nice optional extra systems like Conviction and Corruption etc.. I like it a lot.

BUT it's not a hot system right now, I think the wind has gone out of it's sails, it's no longer a hot system.

I remember reading the core book, which was interesting, and the martial arts book, which I vaguely recall as very, very good (and one of the rare few books that's tempted me to move away from Ninjas & Superspies as my go-to "cheesy martial arts flick" RPG).

I don't remember it being populaer, though, not even when it was in print. I think True20 suffered from being a generic system that never had its "killer app", like BRP (CoC), or D6 (Star Wars), or Savage Worlds (Deadlands Reloaded), or Cortex (licenses for every other thing that's ever been on TV, and now Marvel). Actually, come to think of it, I suppose Blue Rose was supposed to be its killer app, but... well... we all know how well that went.

I'm willing to wager that, if Green Ronin released the core rules as a free download, tacked an OGL on it and lowered the supplement prices, it might even experience a small renaissance (a la D6).

As with all generic systems, True20 tries to do too much.  As with the d20 system, the math is bad.  It's just not interesting enough for me to care about it.

Quote from: The Butcher;522590...

I'm willing to wager that, if Green Ronin released the core rules as a free download, tacked an OGL on it and lowered the supplement prices, it might even experience a small renaissance (a la D6).

True20 is OGL.  Also, the True20 compatibility license is free, and does not require approval by Green Ronin. Any publisher could create stuff for True20 right now, with the True20 logo on the front, if they comply with the compatibility license.

Quote from: The Butcher;522590Actually, come to think of it, I suppose Blue Rose was supposed to be its killer app, but... well... we all know how well that went.

Not really. Blue Rose came out first and True20 was a result of its success. During the years that Blue Rose was released, it was GR's second best selling RPG line (behind WFRP2e one year and M&M the other IIRC) and GR have said that they considered BR to have done well commercially.

The reason for True20's demise, as a subsequent release, is more to do with the fact that GR decided not to support it beyond the core rules. As such, it took a gamble on 3PP support and it didn't pay off, especially as it coincided with the downturn of D20.

Quote from: trechriron;522614True20 is OGL.  Also, the True20 compatibility license is free, and does not require approval by Green Ronin. Any publisher could create stuff for True20 right now, with the True20 logo on the front, if they comply with the compatibility license.

Right.  The main limitation of the True20 logo license is that it does not allow a standalone RPG - only supplements to their True20 book.  

I have posted two SRDs of the True20 material.  This was a point of contention with Green Ronin - the end result of which was that I voluntarily held off making available the first Romantic Fantasy True SRD for two years, then I held off making available the Generic True SRD for several more years.  They are both available now on my SRD website, though:

http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/srd/

Quote from: jhkim;522625Right.  The main limitation of the True20 logo license is that it does not allow a standalone RPG - only supplements to their True20 book.

Well of course, if you allow that sort of thing you get people generating an entire system out of your core rule mechanics and cutting you out of the process (And cash!), when what you really want is people producing supplements for your game that your company wouldn't find economically viable.

Quote from: Ladybird;522636Well of course, if you allow that sort of thing you get people generating an entire system out of your core rule mechanics and cutting you out of the process (And cash!), when what you really want is people producing supplements for your game that your company wouldn't find economically viable.

I don't presume to speak for what any particular game companies want.  

However, I do note that there are quite a few RPG companies that have released free and/or open-license versions of their games.  Many of these seem to have done quite well.  D&D 3.0 is the most prominent example of this, but it seems like the producers of FATE are also doing fairly well.

Quote from: jhkim;522693I don't presume to speak for what any particular game companies want.  

However, I do note that there are quite a few RPG companies that have released free and/or open-license versions of their games.  Many of these seem to have done quite well.  D&D 3.0 is the most prominent example of this, but it seems like the producers of FATE are also doing fairly well.

D6 is experiencing a little Renaissance.

Precis Intermedia has released Masterbook OSL (open supplement license) to make stuff for Masterbook system.

BRP is also experiencing a Renaissance, and it has open versions like OpenQuest (based off the original Mongoose RQ1).  Also, it seems Chaosium is pretty open to submissions, there have been a pile of new releases announced.

Quote from: trechriron;522614True20 is OGL.  Also, the True20 compatibility license is free, and does not require approval by Green Ronin. Any publisher could create stuff for True20 right now, with the True20 logo on the front, if they comply with the compatibility license.

Quote from: Skywalker;522624Not really. Blue Rose came out first and True20 was a result of its success. During the years that Blue Rose was released, it was GR's second best selling RPG line (behind WFRP2e one year and M&M the other IIRC) and GR have said that they considered BR to have done well commercially.

The reason for True20's demise, as a subsequent release, is more to do with the fact that GR decided not to support it beyond the core rules. As such, it took a gamble on 3PP support and it didn't pay off, especially as it coincided with the downturn of D20.

I stand corrected on both counts.

Yeah, when I think of "True20" the first word that comes to mind isn't so much "bland" as "dead".  If its not being supported anymore, it might not be a good idea to release a book using it as the base rules.

RPGPundit

First, thank to all for your input

The comic book is not mine: I'm among the contributors, and I was named "GdR expert" about this question :cool:. It is a "dirty and realistic" approach to fantasy, a little bit like "Game of Thrones" but with magic and monsters (and gothic atmospheres).

Anyway, the publishing house who publishes the Italian edition of "Pathfinder" now approached us, too, so I guess the problem is now moot. And True20 didn't rang a bell with me in the first place - but it was wort getting some more info.

Thanks to all again!

Quote from: Reckall;522778First, thank to all for your input

The comic book is not mine: I'm among the contributors, and I was named "GdR expert" about this question :cool:. It is a "dirty and realistic" approach to fantasy, a little bit like "Game of Thrones" but with magic and monsters (and gothic atmospheres).

Do you have a link to that comic? I'd love to have a look.

QuoteAnyway, the publishing house who publishes the Italian edition of "Pathfinder" now approached us, too, so I guess the problem is now moot. And True20 didn't rang a bell with me in the first place - but it was wort getting some more info.

I didn't know Pathfinder had been translated into Italian. Cool.