Greetings!

Do you use tribal shamans in your game world? Not merely for the typical humanoid NPC encounter, but for humans and such as well? Have you had any player characters or important NPC's as tribal shamans? Did you give tribal shamans a different spell selection than standard Clerics or Druids?

Personally, I don't think all Cleric and Druid spells--say if using one or the other for a Shaman template--really fit well for Shamans.

I think Shamans are interesting as characters, because thematically they are important religious leaders; part healer, part seer and visionary; interpreter of the gods and the spirit world; in tune with and allied with animals and the natural world.

Meanwhile, they often have a loose organizational structure, with little or much less prevailing hierarchy.

Then, there are various shamanistic traditions from a European style, Germanic, Celtic, as well as Slavic, Finnish and Baltic. Then there are northern Asian traditions, as well as the Mongolian and steppe tribal traditions.

A variety of Asian tribes, Pacific island cultures, India and South Asian, African, the Deserts, and the North American and South American traditions. All similar, and yet also vibrantly different in their costumes, weaponry, magical knowledge, rituals and customs.

Very interesting types of characters. I often use Shamans in my own campaign world.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Oddly enough, I don't tend to use shamans much in my typical fantasy games. OTOH, I've used a lot of them in Shadowrun (only a small number were tradition "tribal" shamans while most were urban sprawl-based "street" shamans) and some among the barbarian tribes of Rifts.

I haven't used shamans in my D&D games, but I've had them feature in a number of other games - from historical fantasy to superheroes.

I feel like shamans thematically go with having a spirit world and vision quests, which goes with a more mystical viewpoint than is usual for D&D. I like having those in a game, but it has to be tailored with the genre.

Shamans are pretty prevalent in my games and worlds. Even if they don't show up directly or from part of a particular campaign they're always there in the background or the periphery--present in every primitive settlement (of every race) or perhaps out alone in the wilderness, away from the prying eyes or corrupting touch of civilization.

In D&D I usually just treat them as a variant of "druids", for simplicity's sake. And I haven't really gone on to modify their spell lists, since I consider it too much effort and I already don't like D&D's spell casting system (including its arbitrarily defined spell lists and spell levels), so trying to customize their spells would drive me insane and remind me how much I'd prefer an effect-based system I could easily customize.

If I were to customize them I'd probably give them the power to communicate with spirits and curry favors from them--perhaps summon them or draw them under their command. They would also have the power to read omens and heal the sick by driving out "bad" spirits, and perhaps travel to the spirit world, either in trace or physical form.

The most interesting ones for me are the non-combatant 'Wise Women' of the Altanians in my Wilderlands campaign - they have psychic & precognitive abilities, but I always avoided defining them with rules. So they always remained mysterious and I think more compelling than if statted out with spell lists.

In some games (e.g. Runequest), I'll use shamans more as the spirit character, the way they are in those rules.  But in D&D, I use them and "witch" for a sort of weird catch all for casters that aren't notably wizards, clerics, druids, etc.  Often, I'll just kludge the spell lists any old way that fits what I'm trying to do.  For example, I'm almost done with a set of goblins in an adventure where the goblin "shamans" were built on a mix of blasting wizard and shape changing druid, with just enough nature magic to do the mix, and high charisma to go with their leadership status.  I didn't use the real 5E multiclass rules--just took a druid, threw most of the spells away, added a few elemental wizard spells, and called it good.  Whereas some of the gnoll-demon hybrids earlier in the campaign had shamans that were subservient and almost nothing but utility casters, bossed around by the soul-sucking warrior leaders.

In my own system, "shamans" are "callers" and soothsayers, but that's a loose title bestowed on the kind of abilities that fits the stereotype of spirit folks.   Since the system is all skill-based, and any character can develop any skills, a "wizard" is someone who has learned well the seven great disciplines of magic, and thus necessarily considerable lore as well.  Shaman, witch, priest, etc. are all characters that have specialized in an area, at the expense of breadth.  Any given shaman could be very narrow or almost a wizard.  Every wizard has to start somewhere.

But then, I've never much cared for archetypes embedded into the mechanics.  I'd rather just take the mechanics and then flavor them for whatever archetype character, setting, etc. that I'm doing.

In a game I'm writing right now, I'm trying to use shamans as one of the primary types of magic users.  I think they're a really interesting and different take on magic than the D&D wizard and its many derivatives.  Unfortunately I'm really struggling with how to translate real-world beliefs about shamanism into usable game mechanics.  I would love to hear about what others have done.

Greetings!

Indeed, I know that historical shamans possessed various powers, spells, and abilities, varying by culture, though also sharing many similarities. Visions, dream interpretations, foretelling the future, soothsaying, omen interpretation, projecting curses on people, casting spells of protections on people, crafting charms or other magic items that helped people in various ways; sex magic, fertility rituals, communing with the ancestors, communicating with animals and nature spirits, calling or summoning good spirits or nature spirits, banishing evil spirits, using skills and magic to heal people and animals from wounds as well as illnesses and other injuries; and if all of that isn't busy enough, Shamans also served as prominent counselors and advisors, both to chieftains and leaders, and ordinary members of the community. Shamans also seem to have been influential in diplomatic meetings, hashing out negotiations, and otherwise counseling their chieftains and people during diplomatic meetings with other tribes or foreign kingdoms.

Interestingly, I reviewed some ancient Roman writings about the Germanic tribes. Tacitus, amongst others, were familiar with garden-variety soothsayers, and even common charlatans and other kinds of hustlers. There seem to be several very significant German women shamans--seers, or vulva--that the Germanic tribes routinely and strictly consulted with during their inter-tribal negotiations, as well as at different times, with the Romans. The Romans were not always fighting wars with the Germanic tribes, and at various times allied with many tribes, conducted trade, and so on, as well as making war against enemy tribes, or seeking to protect other tribes or become involved with different tribal diplomatic efforts. The Romans discuss these several prominent Germanic women shamans as being enormously respected and powerful not only *within* a particular Germanic tribe, but also often across several different tribes in the region. The Romans also note how various tribes or leaders suffered mysterious calamities, death, plagues, and so on within days, weeks, or a few months of their judgements. The Roman chroniclers at times seem to have been somewhat fearful and also respectful of these mysterious Germanic women. The Romans remark that such prominent women must always be dealt with respect and seriousness, as such women not only possessed mysterious, magical powers, but could incite a war with but a word, or a frenzied exhortation. These Germanic women Shamans rode about to different tribes, never fearing attack or danger from any barbarian, and they seem to have spoken casually and with great authority with Germanic chieftains and tribal kings alike. Evidently they also negotiated with the Romans with stern authority and fearless courage. These sentiments stand out, because in all of Roman diplomacy and historical commentary--with many cultures and tribes--over the span of centuries, Roman chroniclers are customarily harsh, mocking, and utterly dismissive of many religions, though especially women. Not so with several Germanic women known to be immensely powerful and mysterious Shamans. Pretty interesting stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

AD&D treated Shamans and Witchdoctors as essentially NPC classes that had their own spell lists that drew from the cleric wizard and druid roster.

Quote from: Mishihari;1127402In a game I'm writing right now, I'm trying to use shamans as one of the primary types of magic users.  I think they're a really interesting and different take on magic than the D&D wizard and its many derivatives.  Unfortunately I'm really struggling with how to translate real-world beliefs about shamanism into usable game mechanics.  I would love to hear about what others have done.

Shamans tend to be "intermediaries" of magic.  Unlike wizard magic, which is more about harnessing or creating magic, or clerics, which is similar to shamans but more formal, shaman magic tends towards the understanding of magical forces beyond your control (omens, spirits, etc).  A shaman can bargain with or appease the spirits, but they don't control or command them.  It's a much more informational and transactional kind of magic, in my opinion.

Doesn't Mythras have a whole great spirit magic thing?

D&D classes bear little resemblance to the real world cultures that inspired them. The real world clerics are Christian, druids are Celtic, shamans are Tunguska. They serve analogous roles.

What I would prefer is a more customizable and generic priest class.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1127437D&D classes bear little resemblance to the real world cultures that inspired them. The real world clerics are Christian, druids are Celtic, shamans are Tunguska. They serve analogous roles.

What I would prefer is a more customizable and generic priest class.

Greetings!

Quite right, BoxCrayonTales! I also am not sold on the Warlock class being reflective of a historical or mythological Witch, either. The Witch and Shaman both are very different types of characters from what is presented as available in the Player's Handbook.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1127437D&D classes bear little resemblance to the real world cultures that inspired them. The real world clerics are Christian, druids are Celtic, shamans are Tunguska. They serve analogous roles.

What I would prefer is a more customizable and generic priest class.

True, though, some semblance of what tends to be termed "shamanism" seems to exist in every culture on Earth, regardless of the term's origins. However, shamans can basically be thought of as proto-magicians and if you look deep into it and study occult stuff, you might notice stark similarities between all mystical systems--from ancient shamanism to Golden Dawn--regardless of how superficially different many of these traditions might be. They all seem to include some element of purging yourself of negative influences and personal hangups through ritual or simply by visualizing them flowing out of you before engaging in mystical work (since those might serve as distractions or attract the wrong type of spirits and stuff). Then entering a trance state and traveling to some otherworld or spiritual state of consciousness, perhaps meeting some type of animal spirit or angelic being along the way that serves as a guide during your spiritual journey. Perform some type of ritual and/or undergo some type of trans formative experience while in the trance state. Bring your mind back to a mundane state of consciousness and ground yourself so you don't attract the wrong kinds of spirits with all your residual energies and stuff from engaging in mystical work. Rinse and repeat, and change the type of spirit/angels/gods/whatever you invoke depending on the type of tradition your follow.

From an RPG standpoint my favorite depiction of mystics is the way they're handled in Shadowrun, where the key difference between Shamans and Magicians is in their style and outlook, rather than different types of mystics/magic users being treated as fundamentally different. Shamans may get some basic bonuses and counteracting penalties based on their totem to accentuate their style, but that's about it--their core skills and available magic is basically the same as Magicians (cuz that's what Shamans essentially are).

Quote from: MishihariIn a game I'm writing right now, I'm trying to use shamans as one of the primary types of magic users. I think they're a really interesting and different take on magic than the D&D wizard and its many derivatives. Unfortunately I'm really struggling with how to translate real-world beliefs about shamanism into usable game mechanics. I would love to hear about what others have done.

Quote from: Eirikrautha;1127435Shamans tend to be "intermediaries" of magic.  Unlike wizard magic, which is more about harnessing or creating magic, or clerics, which is similar to shamans but more formal, shaman magic tends towards the understanding of magical forces beyond your control (omens, spirits, etc).  A shaman can bargain with or appease the spirits, but they don't control or command them.  It's a much more informational and transactional kind of magic, in my opinion.

I agree. More concretely:  A shaman can see, talk with, and even directly conflict with spirits. Part of making shamans work is having spirits be significant NPCs in the course of the adventure. It's parallel to having a netrunner in a cyberpunk game -- part of making the character work is giving them a computer network to deal with. Except that spirits aren't just mechanical -- they have feelings and personality, and they care about their own version of morality and ethics. And they're powerful enough that the PCs have to make a deal with at least some of them, or they're screwed.

When I had a shaman-like character, I also gave them some simple charms -- like granting good luck/bad luck during a fight. Each turn, the gydja (prophetess) could call for one reroll. She could also cast curses or major sendings like simple illusions.