Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Personally, I've put in the work to make Cha'alt just as real as objective reality... if not more so.  But I couldn't have done it without sorcery!

For anyone who wants to know more about my individual process, I've been blogging about it.  See my signature for blog link.

Thanks,

VS

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Personally, I've put in the work to make Cha'alt just as real as objective reality... if not more so.  But I couldn't have done it without sorcery!

For anyone who wants to know more about my individual process, I've been blogging about it.  See my signature for blog link.

Thanks,

VS

I guess it depends on if you subscribe to the notion that all myths/stories are real somewhere.

I recall reading something about quantum mechanics that might support that. I'd have to look it up.

Yes and No. 

Yes, in that I try to think of how it would be portrayed if someone wrote a "narrative history" of it as a real thing.  And of course, most worlds are going to have some level of verisimilitude.

No, because there is a conscious decision that the setting is a tool for enabling games that a particular set of players will enjoy and want to explore, which means some decisions are made not on what is "real" but on what will more likely produce outcomes we want. 

A good example of the tension is how I tend to approach the, "Are PCs special?" question.  Yes, they are, because when selecting/modify the system, I've got a an ever so slight finger on the scale of giving them capabilities that the normal inhabitants don't usually have. No, they aren't, because having given them that edge, once they hit play the dice fall where they may.  I'm consciously "fudging" the setup and consciously not "fudging" adjudication in play.  That approach is somewhat incompatible with "the world is treated as a real place with its own rules that are followed to all of their logical conclusions no matter what."

Cannot resist:



But yes, I think there are many upsides in considering the campaign world an internally consistent, coherent, believable place.

"Real"? Depends on how you're using the word.

I often think of NPCs in terms of inherent motivations, for example, instead of "watts best for the plot/adventure/campaign". But not always.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 11:46:15 AM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Personally, I've put in the work to make Cha'alt just as real as objective reality... if not more so.  But I couldn't have done it without sorcery!

For anyone who wants to know more about my individual process, I've been blogging about it.  See my signature for blog link.

Thanks,

VS

I guess it depends on if you subscribe to the notion that all myths/stories are real somewhere.

I recall reading something about quantum mechanics that might support that. I'd have to look it up.

I don't have a problem with that line of thinking.  Once we delve a little deeper, I assume individuals will have varying ideas of "real" and "somewhere"...

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 26, 2022, 11:57:22 AM
Yes and No. 

Yes, in that I try to think of how it would be portrayed if someone wrote a "narrative history" of it as a real thing.  And of course, most worlds are going to have some level of verisimilitude.

No, because there is a conscious decision that the setting is a tool for enabling games that a particular set of players will enjoy and want to explore, which means some decisions are made not on what is "real" but on what will more likely produce outcomes we want. 

A good example of the tension is how I tend to approach the, "Are PCs special?" question.  Yes, they are, because when selecting/modify the system, I've got a an ever so slight finger on the scale of giving them capabilities that the normal inhabitants don't usually have. No, they aren't, because having given them that edge, once they hit play the dice fall where they may.  I'm consciously "fudging" the setup and consciously not "fudging" adjudication in play.  That approach is somewhat incompatible with "the world is treated as a real place with its own rules that are followed to all of their logical conclusions no matter what."

What if you had all that stuff (conscious "fudging" setup and not "fudging" adjudication), but then treated what happened in the campaign as real - this is what actually happened in X world - while granting X world its own substance or reality?

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 26, 2022, 12:03:36 PM
Cannot resist:



But yes, I think there are many upsides in considering the campaign world an internally consistent, coherent, believable place.

"Real"? Depends on how you're using the word.

I often think of NPCs in terms of inherent motivations, for example, instead of "watts best for the plot/adventure/campaign". But not always.

Does reality always require internally consistent, coherent, believable places?  Can't we just decide that the hammerhead flying shark demon really bit that guy's head off, even though that's rather implausible? 

I think if you believe a fantasy world you created is real, it's a serious break from reality.

But people aren't terribly rational, and the creative process is almost the opposite pole. So getting in a mindset where your convince yourself it's true, at least partially or some of the time, doesn't mean you've gone crazy or that you're non-functional, and it might really help in fleshing out the world. I think a lot of authors immerse themselves into their world to the extent that it feels real, and that's a good way to tap into their unconscious creativity, and to come up with answers that they feel are right, but which they can't readily explain, because the process by which they came to that conclusion happened at a subconscious level.

There is a point where you pass from normal to nuts, though I don't think most people have to worry about that too much.

Well, I don't do deep immersion as a player.  I'm even less likely to do it as a GM or world-builder.  If I'm understanding the question correctly, I'd see that as akin to the world-builder version of deep immersion.

Or to put another wording on what Pat said, it's the line between the world "as if" and the world 'as is".

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Personally, I've put in the work to make Cha'alt just as real as objective reality... if not more so.  But I couldn't have done it without sorcery!

For anyone who wants to know more about my individual process, I've been blogging about it.  See my signature for blog link.

Thanks,

VS

Well, I do treat them as real because to do so otherwise would make them unrealistic to the Players that go there.

It is all about suspension of disbelief to me. If you make the setting too unrealistic, then the Players belief suspenders will snap and they will not take the setting environment seriously. Like in the Traveller game that I am running, the Players are noble colonists in a new territory leading other colonists. Since one Player is a very high ranking noble (Soc: E, sent to lead this new colony because he is an embarrassment to the family back home) then the subsector Marquess (Soc: E) would consider him to be competition even though she has a much larger power base than he (by a factor of about 10,000). So instead of a load of bright, eager, and skilled colonists on the next ship out - she sends double the number of convicts (mostly political prisoners) who have been offered transportation instead of serving their sentences. It is realistic for this to happen even though there are starships travelling to far flung worlds because it is in synch with human nature to pull crap like that.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Well its not Landover real.

Quote from: Shasarak on April 26, 2022, 08:46:15 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Well its not Landover real.

I loved them books and forgot all about them until now! Thank you! I better throw the first one in my Amazon cart and read it again.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 05:11:23 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 26, 2022, 12:03:36 PM
Cannot resist:



But yes, I think there are many upsides in considering the campaign world an internally consistent, coherent, believable place.

"Real"? Depends on how you're using the word.

I often think of NPCs in terms of inherent motivations, for example, instead of "watts best for the plot/adventure/campaign". But not always.

Does reality always require internally consistent, coherent, believable places?  Can't we just decide that the hammerhead flying shark demon really bit that guy's head off, even though that's rather implausible?

Fair points. However, flying shark demon is not implausible in most D&D worlds, for example, so still internally coherent.

When properly executed an RPG setting is as real as the settings and characters of a good book or movie. Yes, it is fantasy, but it still provokes an emotional response as though it were real. The town is more than a save point and item dispensary and the NPCs are more than quest givers. When a game does not resonate emotionally, I cannot be bothered to play it because I do not care and have no interest in seeing what happens in it next.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 26, 2022, 08:34:58 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on April 26, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Just wondering if anyone on here considers their gaming world a real place, albeit subjectively, in our imaginations, or perhaps another dimension?  If so, I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

Personally, I've put in the work to make Cha'alt just as real as objective reality... if not more so.  But I couldn't have done it without sorcery!

For anyone who wants to know more about my individual process, I've been blogging about it.  See my signature for blog link.

Thanks,

VS

Well, I do treat them as real because to do so otherwise would make them unrealistic to the Players that go there.

It is all about suspension of disbelief to me. If you make the setting too unrealistic, then the Players belief suspenders will snap and they will not take the setting environment seriously. Like in the Traveller game that I am running, the Players are noble colonists in a new territory leading other colonists. Since one Player is a very high ranking noble (Soc: E, sent to lead this new colony because he is an embarrassment to the family back home) then the subsector Marquess (Soc: E) would consider him to be competition even though she has a much larger power base than he (by a factor of about 10,000). So instead of a load of bright, eager, and skilled colonists on the next ship out - she sends double the number of convicts (mostly political prisoners) who have been offered transportation instead of serving their sentences. It is realistic for this to happen even though there are starships travelling to far flung worlds because it is in synch with human nature to pull crap like that.

Including human nature is definitely key to the sort of "realism" I portray... along with the banana-men, sandworms, laser rifles, fireball spells, and Great Old Ones.