Traveller5 has arrived!

estar · June 30, 2013, 12:03:31 AM

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;666856In one sentence, can anyone tell me if it is worth playing the new T5 over the older T1 LBBs? I have people around with both and I am interested.

Probably not but what I recommend right now for the Full Traveller Experience (tm) is to get Mongoose Traveller and the Classic Traveller CD-ROM from Far Future. For extra goodness get the two Traveller Apocrypha CD-ROMs

From my point of view Traveller5 is about as useful as the two Apocrypha. It Traveller with mechanics clearly descended from classic Traveller so bit and pieces will be useful for a MongTrav/Classic game.

estar · June 30, 2013, 12:09:26 AM

Quote from: flyerfan1991;666867Since T5 is a toolkit, would that mean that only the DM would need to buy a copy? I perused the tome today, and I simply couldn't see everybody at the gaming table picking a copy up. Other games that have similar (literal) weight --DCC and Pathfinder Core-- have enough utility in there for players to make it worth their while to acquire, but I don't have that same feel when I paged through T5.

No it pretty much useless for a player unless they want to dig in and learn how to make stuff for themselves. Which is a hallmark of some Traveller campaigns. If I was to use T5 as is I would take the PDFs they gave me and transform them into myriad cheat sheets that the player would use.

Kuroth · June 30, 2013, 12:38:19 AM

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;666856In one sentence, can anyone tell me if it is worth playing the new T5 over the older T1 LBBs? I have people around with both and I am interested.

Skip the dull Third Imperium setting and editions that integrate it into the core rules by either getting the first edition's first three books or one of Mongoose's Traveller based non-Third Imperium games, like Judge Dredd.

taustin · June 30, 2013, 12:38:41 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;666874I have a question for you. Now that Hero Games site is back up, do you know if they have a character sheet PDF to download for star hero? They did find a character sheet somewhere that is locked so you can't save it after filling it in. The players were looking for one the other night.

Oh, now that's just stupid. If they have the full version of Acrobat to create a fillable form, it's trivial to set it to be saveable in Reader. Or maybe they're just too cheap to update to something newer than version 7.

PM me an email address and I'll send you an unlocked version of it (it's about 300k).

Sheesh.

Kuroth · June 30, 2013, 12:43:30 AM

Quote from: taustin;666887Oh, now that's just stupid. If they have the full version of Acrobat to create a fillable form, it's trivial to set it to be saveable in Reader. Or maybe they're just too cheap to update to something newer than version 7.

PM me an email address and I'll send you an unlocked version of it (it's about 300k).

Sheesh.

This is true Shawn. Not the stupid part, though. From Shawn's description that character creation meeting was a mess of distractions. There is a full acrobat compatible one for Hero 5th there right now. I think I like the excel one there better, though. Hero Games Free Stuff

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:28:34 AM

Quote from: Kuroth;666849You mentioned T4, are these maker systems in T5 similar to Fire, Fusion, Steel? I could see a book hitting 700 pages with that concept in the core, if so. Edit: Oh yes, how specific are these maker systems tied to the Third Imperium setting?

No, the design sequences are set up more like the ones in Mekton, with a base concept and then descriptors to modify that. The maker systems are not tied to any single setting. However, some of the example outputs are specific to the Official Traveller Universe.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:29:40 AM

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;666856In one sentence, can anyone tell me if it is worth playing the new T5 over the older T1 LBBs? I have people around with both and I am interested.

I will answer this question if you can give me a scientific definition of "fun" and the units in which it is measured.

Really, just try both and see which one you like the most.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:32:25 AM

Quote from: 1989;666861Would you say it's a toolkit in the same way that Hero is a toolkit, or that GURPS is a toolkit?

No.

This is the next step in evolution of a toolkit. Individually, the Makers and the other Rules of Traveller5 are common. It is the way that each individual system seems to work together with the next that makes this a genre transformative toolkit.

You don't just build the big stuff, you design and build all the little stuff too. And the big stuff is made up of the little stuff, which is a subset of even bigger stuff to design and build.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:36:24 AM

Quote from: Kuroth;666862How this works might actually be interesting, even though the book might contain other parts that are too minutia.

I would say that if you are interested, but cautious, then wait for Traveller5 to come out on PDF or buy it used. So that if it turns out to be a waste of your money, then the waste is minimized.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:42:59 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;666865For a mountain climber, who likes a challenge climbing the highest peaks, etc, Traveller 5 is one such mountain. But it is a mountain of shit. Don't know if it's worth the challenge climbing it. No fanboy has made it to the top yet.

Then there is the other part about convincing players in your group to play it. It's like herding nerds.

So in answer to your question, BarefootGaijin. I cannot.

Now, you have to wonder what kind of game can instill this much passion in someone. Is Shawn Driscoll just a hater? A mindless nerdrager? Did Traveller5 beat him up on the playground and steal his lunch money?

He may have a point, though. Traveller5 is a mountain to climb, in that way it is like The World's Largest Dungeon in that it may be a mediocre product that challenges experienced Traveller gamers to make something with, just like The World's Largest Dungeon was a mediocre megadungeon that challenged 3.x Players to make it all the way through.

For myself, I'm already getting fresh ideas and new uses for my Traveller games from it.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:44:14 AM

Quote from: flyerfan1991;666867Since T5 is a toolkit, would that mean that only the DM would need to buy a copy? I perused the tome today, and I simply couldn't see everybody at the gaming table picking a copy up. Other games that have similar (literal) weight --DCC and Pathfinder Core-- have enough utility in there for players to make it worth their while to acquire, but I don't have that same feel when I paged through T5.

I agree. Most of the material in Traveller5 is for the Referee who has to design and build the setting that the Players will be gaming in.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:52:45 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;666868I don't recommend playing the game, let alone buying it. Here's a typical review of Traveller 5 http://fromkickassistan.blogspot.com/2013/06/first-impressions-of-t5-day-that.html

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;666871It's just sad. People shouldn't be passing this test. Traveller 5 was going to be something kool and awesome (see //www.traveller5.com ). What we ended up with wasn't supposed to happen. The Traveller 5 that was released is just wrong.

You know what jumps out at me with this?

I see no evidence that either the blogger from "kickassistan" or Shawn Driscoll has read Traveller5.

If you just want to shit on the thing, that is your perogative to be venting an uninformed opinion. It just makes you look more credible to have actual, concrete complaints about something when you are knocking it down.

jeff37923 · June 30, 2013, 03:58:15 AM

Quote from: estar;666882Probably not but what I recommend right now for the Full Traveller Experience (tm) is to get Mongoose Traveller and the Classic Traveller CD-ROM from Far Future. For extra goodness get the two Traveller Apocrypha CD-ROMs

For Players unfamiliar or barely familiar with Traveller, then this is the way to go. I agree with estar that Traveller5 is not for newbies.

Quote from: estar;666882From my point of view Traveller5 is about as useful as the two Apocrypha. It Traveller with mechanics clearly descended from classic Traveller so bit and pieces will be useful for a MongTrav/Classic game.

I'd say that Traveller5 in this context is more useful than the Apocrypha, but I may change my mind upon further reading. I'm just fidning so much stuff that I can do for a setting in Traveller5.

taustin · June 30, 2013, 04:04:44 AM

Quote from: Kuroth;666889This is true Shawn. Not the stupid part, though. From Shawn's description that character creation meeting was a mess of distractions. There is a full acrobat compatible one for Hero 5th there right now. I think I like the excel one there better, though. Hero Games Free Stuff

The only fillable PDF is 5th edition, and, as Shawn said, requires the full version of Acrobat to save after you fill it in. This is the default when you create a form. It is trivial to change that setting so that you can save it from Reader after you fill it in (unless a password has been added to prevent that, which it has not in this case).

Kuroth · June 30, 2013, 04:50:24 AM

Quote from: taustin;666924The only fillable PDF is 5th edition, and, as Shawn said, requires the full version of Acrobat to save after you fill it in. This is the default when you create a form. It is trivial to change that setting so that you can save it from Reader after you fill it in (unless a password has been added to prevent that, which it has not in this case).

Which is why promoted the use of the excel version.