Quote from: Zachary The First... Akrasia, I'll check out that review--I notice there is a 1st & 2nd printing.  Is the 1st C&C printing too bad?

The 1st printing is 'okay' but has some editing and layout issues.  These bother different people to varying degrees.

The 2nd printing is far better organized, has better explanations (and examples) for some of the rules, and includes poison rules for assassins.  

I would definitely recommend the 2nd printing over the 1st.

Quote from: AkrasiaThe 2nd printing is far better organized, has better explanations (and examples) for some of the rules, and includes poison rules for assassins.  

I would definitely recommend the 2nd printing over the 1st.

My only experience with C&C is 1st, and I wasn't overly impressed at all. If they fixed even half of that category of problems for 2nd then definately 2nd over 1st as that was near the top of the list of issues I had with C&C.

Quote from: blakkieI'm curious why Savage Worlds is out? Because it's got a lot of things going for you. Light and frothy plus list of skills to detail the characters. A hoot to play. It does lack some character longevity of play due to the relatively broad nature of some of the skills, but it should be more than fine to get through a module or 3.

It wasn't anything against SavWo per se--just my group finished up with a loooong SavWo Deadlands camapign, and said they wanted a break from it.

When I use BW, I do use simplified combat and social mechanics.  I've tried and tried, but I really dislike the more complex combat and Duel of Wits stuff.  And I worry that there might be a little too much conversion work (even with the excellent Monster Burner) involved to make it mesh with the Wilderlands.

Akrasia:  The Deluxe edition of C&C, boxed sets, etc., that are available--are they 2nd printing, do you know?

Quote from: Zachary The FirstIt wasn't anything against SavWo per se--just my group finished up with a loooong SavWo Deadlands camapign, and said they wanted a break from it.

Ah, understood.

QuoteWhen I use BW, I do use simplified combat and social mechanics.  I've tried and tried, but I really dislike the more complex combat and Duel of Wits stuff.

Curious, what do you dislike about it? Is it the level of detail, because there is a lot of that. You are using coated sheets and a grease pencil or wet/dry erase markers, right? That I find makes a world of difference in speed of scripting, although I prefer a somewhat modified version of the scripting sheets (bigger text, cleaner layout). I'm not huge on the standard character sheet either, I've got thing about refining layout usability and also don't bother to track for epiphanies.

QuoteAnd I worry that there might be a little too much conversion work (even with the excellent Monster Burner) involved to make it mesh with the Wilderlands

Hrmmm, I've never played the Wilderlands modules that I can remember but my understanding is that, at least the new release, is mostly the 'fluff' descriptions? Although power adjustment of stock monsters by name could be an issue, mostly winging it should be easy. Especially if you were to use Simple combat. *shrug* Especially since often the main story 'script' isn't where the cool action is, and players are wont to roam elsewhere.

Probably a better question to pose on the BW boards though to see if anyone is using Wilderlands right now so they can shoot up to the wiki what they have, or at least any AD&D stuff that's been done up.

C&C though might be the thing, especially if in the 2nd printing they fixed up some of the worst of those dangling rules that weren't finished. Though I found the XP/advancement to be rather slow (or it could have been our GM fucking something up?). We didn't play that long, but by rough calculation it was going to take us about 2 years of nearly weekly play to reach 4th level. :what:  The characters also don't get that much in the way of mechanical 'details'.

Quote from: blakkieAh, understood.


Curious, what do you dislike about it? Is it the level of detail, because there is a lot of that. You are using coated sheets and a grease pencil or wet/dry erase markers, right? That I find makes a world of difference in speed of scripting, although I prefer a somewhat modified version of the scripting sheets (bigger text, cleaner layout). I'm not huge on the standard character sheet either, I've got thing about refining layout usability and also don't bother to track for epiphanies.

Basically, it just goes in a little deep for me. I tried using dry erase, and it wasn't my speed (or that of my groups).  And with Duel of Wits, most players I have just find it cramps their actual role-playing out of dramatic encounters.  I'm sure it would have gotten easier if we had pushed it, but I faced a mutiny at that point.  I do love most of BW, and it's still a viable option for this game, I just have a few hang-ups (several of which you've nicely addressed here, thank you).

Quote from: Zachary The First...
Akrasia:  The Deluxe edition of C&C, boxed sets, etc., that are available--are they 2nd printing, do you know?

Anything you purchase directly from TLG will be 2nd printing, as they're out of the 1st printing.  With other distributors, it would be best to inquire first.  If it says 'TLG80102' on the spine, you're golden.  

The 'collector's box set' is something else entirely.  It is modeled on the original 'white box' (or, as Old Geezer would correct me, 'brown box') version of D&D (the 1974 rules).  Consequently, it is quite stripped down.  It consists of three booklets (one for rules, one for monsters & treasures, and one intro adventure), plus some Zocchi dice.  The rules only cover 4 races and 4 classes, levels 1-10.  Also, they are very light (e.g. spell descriptions get only one sentence each!).

Quote from: AkrasiaAnything you purchase directly from TLG will be 2nd printing, as they're out of the 1st printing.  With other distributors, it would be best to inquire first.  If it says 'TLG80102' on the spine, you're golden.  

The 'collector's box set' is something else entirely.  It is modeled on the original 'white box' (or, as Old Geezer would correct me, 'brown box') version of D&D (the 1974 rules).  Consequently, it is quite stripped down.  It consists of three booklets (one for rules, one for monsters & treasures, and one intro adventure), plus some Zocchi dice.  The rules only cover 4 races and 4 classes, levels 1-10.  Also, they are very light (e.g. spell descriptions get only one sentence each!).

So that's a no-go on the box set.  Gotcha.  Thanks!

Quote from: Zachary The FirstSo that's a no-go on the box set.  Gotcha.  Thanks!

Well, some people prefer the box set, e.g. Wilderlands champion Melan.

It depends on what you want, but I certainly prefer the fullblown rules. :cool:

Zachary,

Based on what I've inferred about WoHF, and my knowledge/experience of various RPGs, I think that TFT (out of print but available by various means) or possibly Legends of the Ancient world would be worth a look.

Quote from: AkrasiaWell, some people prefer the box set, e.g. Wilderlands champion Melan.

Slight correction - as a basis for my own homebrew variant, running 56 pages for the players' rules. Not quite the same thing.

I use GURPS myself

see http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands for a few of my notes

Rob Conley
one author among many for the Wilderlands of High Fantasy