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Author Topic: XP....for the GM!  (Read 1000 times)

wulfgar

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XP....for the GM!
« on: July 25, 2008, 08:23:53 AM »
I was browsing through the rpg stuff at the used book store yesterday.  When I noticed a copy of the Temple of Doom module for the TSR Indy game.  The whole "module" is basically the movie, scene for scene.  So, I go to the end just see if they allow for any different conclusions and noticed the following, paraphrasing:

Quote
For each PC that was killed, deduct 1 storypoint from the surviving PCs and from the GM


Whoa.  Assuming Story points are somehow akin to XP- I've had experience with a DM deducting XP from a character because they basically sat on their butt while another pc got killed, but the idea of the GM deducting XP from himself never even occured to me.  

I wonder how many story points it takes for a GM to level up.  :)

Of course from what I've heard, the TSR Indy game has no rules for character creation, and the module was set up to run with Indy, Short Round, and Willie as the PCs, so I can see the thought behind discouraging PC deaths.  I mean if Indy gets killed- you can't very well play any more Indy games can you!  Not to mention, if anyone gets killed there's not any rules for making a new character.

Anyways, I find this whole idea of XP for the GM rather amusing and interesting and thought I'd share my discovery.
 

Blackleaf

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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 08:52:57 AM »
The game I frequently allude to working on has a system where the GM can win or lose depending on the points in the game. ;)

The system is finished -- it's the setting work that's slowed me down.  And as we've seen from recent discussions about D&D, GSL, D6 etc  I think you need a well developed and interesting setting to go along with a good system.  A good system on it's own (eg. D6) isn't worth so much...

Lawbag

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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 08:57:14 AM »
Quote from: wulfgar;228032
I was browsing through the rpg stuff at the used book store yesterday.  When I noticed a copy of the Temple of Doom module for the TSR Indy game.  The whole "module" is basically the movie, scene for scene.  So, I go to the end just see if they allow for any different conclusions and noticed the following, paraphrasing:



Whoa.  Assuming Story points are somehow akin to XP- I've had experience with a DM deducting XP from a character because they basically sat on their butt while another pc got killed, but the idea of the GM deducting XP from himself never even occured to me.  

I wonder how many story points it takes for a GM to level up.  :)

Of course from what I've heard, the TSR Indy game has no rules for character creation, and the module was set up to run with Indy, Short Round, and Willie as the PCs, so I can see the thought behind discouraging PC deaths.  I mean if Indy gets killed- you can't very well play any more Indy games can you!  Not to mention, if anyone gets killed there's not any rules for making a new character.

Anyways, I find this whole idea of XP for the GM rather amusing and interesting and thought I'd share my discovery.

A solid reason behind why TSR fucked themselves over many times.

I remember seeing this and just thinking about lessons not learnt with past disasters.
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David Johansen

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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 10:31:47 AM »
Really, some kind of an escalation rule might be interesting.

I don't think it would be based on killing PCs, but if you had to achieve a certain number of points to bring out boss level monsters or something that might go well with 4e D&D and other more gamist rpgs.

Rune might already do this.
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Nicephorus

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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 01:40:51 PM »
Quote from: David Johansen;228062
Really
I don't think it would be based on killing PCs, but if you had to achieve a certain number of points to bring out boss level monsters or something that might go well with 4e D&D and other more gamist rpgs.
 

Hmmm, I think one could design a dungeon with trigger points.  Every time the PCs kill a sizable monster, wreak havoc, or otherwise let the denizens know they're under attack, the gm gets points to spend on triggered events, like higher alert status, monsters abandoning sites and taking their treasure, monsters moving in larger groups, and bosses taking a more active role.  
 
Probably more trouble that it's worth.  But, if you like the old school approach where the gm is just the communicator of what the environment does, it would give guidelines.

GrimJesta

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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 03:28:27 PM »
Man, I thought this was going to be a thread about the Hackmaster Gamemaster's Association. Those level 4 GMs are legendary... and the one level 5, Topher, is brilliant.

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Ian Absentia

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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 02:19:52 PM »
Quote from: Nicephorus;228109
Hmmm, I think one could design a dungeon with trigger points.  

[...snip...]
 
Probably more trouble that it's worth.
I'd have to give it another read-through, but, as David wondered above, Rune does do something somewhat akin to this with its rules for competetive GM vs. Player design.  I don't recall "trigger points" as such, but the GM definitely has a point allotment for buying adventure features to design obstacles for the players.  The point allotment isn't flexible during the course of the adventure, though.

I'll pull Rune out this evening and have another look at it.

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Dr Rotwang!

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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 03:14:02 PM »
Quote from: wulfgar;228032
Of course from what I've heard, the TSR Indy game has no rules for character creation ... if anyone gets killed there's not any rules for making a new character.
True -- but the Judge's Pack does.  

You guys want a review of this game?
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Cole

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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2008, 05:13:18 PM »
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;228348
True -- but the Judge's Pack does.  

You guys want a review of this game?


Of course.
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2008, 10:34:16 PM »
Back when I played D&D I always joked that a GM got experience equal to the number of levels the character's in his campaign gained squared before being retired / killed for good.  I didn't know that anyone actually had a system out there and took it seriously.  That's a bit disturbing.
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wulfgar

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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 11:40:31 AM »
I'd be interested in a TSR Indy review as well good Dr. Rotwang.
 

kryyst

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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 01:37:05 PM »
The only game I remember reading that officially supported this concept was Shadowrun.  I forget which edition (2nd I think) had the concept of a threat rating for NPC's.  It went on further to give it an xp like idea.  Where the GM would setup a goal for the NPC's and if they succeeded at completing the goal where there was a direct opposition from the PC's then they suggested to increase the Threat Rating.

Now it's been a long time since I read it so that's the gist of the idea.  I do remember being the GM and I do remember using those rules and I had fun.  I also remember having to stop the campaign because the PC's kept messing up obvious ways and by the end the main villain had out classed himself so many times over that the PC's had no hope of stopping him anymore.  I essentially won as the GM and in doing so didn't really win at all.  Except it created an amusing anecdote for our group that still gets brought up from time to time when the group particularly fucks things up.
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Blackleaf

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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 03:57:03 PM »
Quote from: kryyst;228885
The only game I remember reading that officially supported this concept was Shadowrun.  I forget which edition (2nd I think) had the concept of a threat rating for NPC's.  It went on further to give it an xp like idea.  Where the GM would setup a goal for the NPC's and if they succeeded at completing the goal where there was a direct opposition from the PC's then they suggested to increase the Threat Rating.


That reminds me of Marvel Superheroes -- the villains would get Karma for doing various villainy actions.