Down our gaming emporium, Indie is any game published in A5 size and therefore easy to pinch - Elfs, Faery's Tale, Panty Explosion. Burning Wheel is slightly less indie only due to the books thickness and that both are bound together.

see, it's scientific !

Quote from: SeanchaiI don't believe in "indie" games. I believe it's a division created by folks who have something to gain by it and doesn't mean much to actual gamers.

Seanchai

I wont argue. How about Story Games vs Trad games then? Same thing?

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI wont argue. How about Story Games vs Trad games then? Same thing?

Well, the term is also meaningless to the average gamer.  However, I think it is a better term for what you mean.  For one thing, the term implies emphasis on story which at least fits better with the suggested definition thatn "independent".  Second, it has some traction as the usage on Andy Kitkowski's "Story Games" forum, where it was defined to be pretty much that.  In the forum description, he defines it roughly as:

QuoteA Story Game is a type of role-playing game or gaming experience with a lesser focus on My Character and a greater focus on Our Story.

I think the phrasing is messed up, but the spirit of what he's trying to convey is similar to what people here are, I think.

Quote from: HinterWeltThat just seems so strange to me. I am not trying to be snarky or obtuse but I have always let my players interject ideas into the campaign. I do not need rules for it. However, I think I begin to see the problem.

I understand what you are saying and that kind of input has always been an optional but fundamental element of traditional games.  But I'm talking about actually during the action, not just in between games or in general meta discussion about the campaign.

So in a trad game, the player might say "I am going to try and make a witty retort against the prince's accusation."  The GM and you both roll and you dis the prince.  "The prince goes red in the face and the queen titters, holding her hand to her mouth."

In an indie game, the player would roll the dice ahead of time.  If the player wins, they might say "I make a witty retort against the prince.  He goes red in the face and the queen titters, holding her hand to her mouth."

That's really only in specific games, though.

Quote from: StuartIndie means independently published.

...

Well then OD&D is an indie game!  Can't get much more indie than a few guys running up a handfull of prints on there own dime to make a market where none existed before.  

QuoteSome people may want it to mean something else... and those are perhaps the same people who like the idea of taking all kinds of words and developing alternate meanings for them... but the truth is the rest of the world sees it just like they do music.  Indie = Independent.  They don't see Indie = Hippy Music.

It's surely marketing.  Indie has positive connotations of independent, creative, a place for new ideas.  Traditional has connotations of boring, constricting, and limited.

Quote from: walkerpHere's another way to say it:

In traditional games, you say "My character does this."

In indie games, you say "this happens."

Wow, who knew that each and every single one of my campaigns was indie? Man, I've been playing indie since 1994 then! :rolleyes:

Personally I can't stand the movement that seems to take terms that all other media use for pretty much the same thing and make up something all new for it.

Ashcan copies, indie and all that.  This is one of the reasons that I can't stand a lot of forge theory talk, well that and making up terms for things that already have a name or making up names for things that don't need them.

Ah well....

Quote from: XantherWell then OD&D is an indie game!  Can't get much more indie than a few guys running up a handfull of prints on there own dime to make a market where none existed before.

If it came out now, it might be considered indie in the economic sense. Since it's way out of print and the IP belongs to somebody other than the original creator(s), it doesn't really count.

Quote from: droogIf it came out now, it might be considered indie in the economic sense. Since it's way out of print and the IP belongs to somebody other than the original creator(s), it doesn't really count.

It was indie at the time of it's design and printing, so I don't see how subsequent transfer of rights and going out of print change it's indie status: especially of the original 1976 copy I have sitting on my self.  

It certainly counts as an indie game, where indie means independent, that is game designer = game owner = company owner.  You can't get much more indie than that.

Quote from: XantherIt was indie at the time of it's design and printing, so I don't see how subsequent transfer of rights and going out of print change it's indie status: especially of the original 1976 copy I have sitting on my self.  

It certainly counts as an indie game, where indie means independent, that is game designer = game owner = company owner.  You can't get much more indie than that.

Well, I think it's arguable, but it's a bit irrelevant really. You can call it an indie game if you want to. It's not like you can buy it off a shelf anywhere.

Quote from: XantherWell then OD&D is an indie game!  Can't get much more indie than a few guys running up a handfull of prints on there own dime to make a market where none existed before.

Actually... this is true.  OD&D was an indie game.

It's not anymore though.  To put it in music terms -- D&D got signed to a label.

Quote from: StuartTo put it in music terms -- D&D got signed to a label.

Yeah, and they booted out the lead singer.

Quote from: peteramthorPersonally I can't stand the movement that seems to take terms that all other media use for pretty much the same thing and make up something all new for it.

Ashcan copies, indie and all that.  This is one of the reasons that I can't stand a lot of forge theory talk, well that and making up terms for things that already have a name or making up names for things that don't need them.

That's exactly how I feel.  It's encouraging to see some Forge / Story Games regulars seeming to move away from all of that.

Quote from: droogYeah, and they booted out the lead singer.

So true.