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Author Topic: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really  (Read 13336 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2020, 03:34:39 PM »
Quote
This game is not for fascists, TERFs, or other bigots. The team behind Thirsty Sword Lesbians supports racial liberation, intersectional feminism, and queer liberation. We love and respect transgender people, nonbinary people, intersex people, and women. This game is a joyous celebration of lives and identities otherwise marginalized. If you don’t agree, fix your heart before sharing a table with other people

Intersex is not an identity, it is an umbrella term for dozens of recognized medical conditions that adversely affect the fertility of their patients and in some cases are fatal if left untreated. I read tweets by intersex people on twitter, although nowadays many prefer "variations of sexual characteristics" or "differences of sexual development". They don't like having their medical conditions co-opted by trans rights activists to "disprove" the sex binary.

Being born with part of your intestines hanging out, deadly salt-wasting, or a complete insensitivity to androgens is not equivalent to identifying as a trans non-binary two-spirit demigirl (I thought cultural appropriation was wrong?), advocating for the abolishment of single-sex spaces (mostly women's spaces), calling lesbians transphobic for not liking girldick and throwing misogynistic slurs at them and causing young lesbians extreme self-esteem issues because they're trying to force themselves to like dick when their every instinct is screaming at them "I don't like dick!" (did we learn nothing from conversion therapy?), calling detransitioners and transgender pedophiles "fakes" a la the No True Scotsman fallacy, murdering a FtM's unborn child because of sexist medical "ethics" when you wouldn't treat a pregnant woman that way, claiming that biological sex is a social construct invented by white supremacists (which is not only false but insanely racist, since the non-white Sumerians, Egyptians, Chinese, and Mayans among other indigenous cultures wrote extensively about their male and female deities), or replacing political positions originally reserved (on the basis of equality) for female individuals with male individuals who identify as non-men.

I respect the right of other humans to have colorful personalities and to love any other consenting adult regardless of their respective sex or body mods, but respect is a two-way street. The far left trans rights activists (who don't speak for all trans individuals) have shown themselves to be misogynistic, homophobic, and science-denying in spades. Get your own house in order before criticizing others.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #211 on: October 22, 2020, 04:19:42 PM »
Quote
This game is not for fascists, TERFs, or other bigots. The team behind Thirsty Sword Lesbians supports racial liberation, intersectional feminism, and queer liberation. We love and respect transgender people, nonbinary people, intersex people, and women. This game is a joyous celebration of lives and identities otherwise marginalized. If you don’t agree, fix your heart before sharing a table with other people

Intersex is not an identity, it is an umbrella term for dozens of recognized medical conditions that adversely affect the fertility of their patients and in some cases are fatal if left untreated. I read tweets by intersex people on twitter, although nowadays many prefer "variations of sexual characteristics" or "differences of sexual development". They don't like having their medical conditions co-opted by trans rights activists to "disprove" the sex binary.

Being born with part of your intestines hanging out, deadly salt-wasting, or a complete insensitivity to androgens is not equivalent to identifying as a trans non-binary two-spirit demigirl (I thought cultural appropriation was wrong?), advocating for the abolishment of single-sex spaces (mostly women's spaces), calling lesbians transphobic for not liking girldick and throwing misogynistic slurs at them and causing young lesbians extreme self-esteem issues because they're trying to force themselves to like dick when their every instinct is screaming at them "I don't like dick!" (did we learn nothing from conversion therapy?), calling detransitioners and transgender pedophiles "fakes" a la the No True Scotsman fallacy, murdering a FtM's unborn child because of sexist medical "ethics" when you wouldn't treat a pregnant woman that way, claiming that biological sex is a social construct invented by white supremacists (which is not only false but insanely racist, since the non-white Sumerians, Egyptians, Chinese, and Mayans among other indigenous cultures wrote extensively about their male and female deities), or replacing political positions originally reserved (on the basis of equality) for female individuals with male individuals who identify as non-men.

I respect the right of other humans to have colorful personalities and to love any other consenting adult regardless of their respective sex or body mods, but respect is a two-way street. The far left trans rights activists (who don't speak for all trans individuals) have shown themselves to be misogynistic, homophobic, and science-denying in spades. Get your own house in order before criticizing others.

That's what makes this forum fun. I never thought I'd be agreeing with BoxCrayonTales on this kind of topic.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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S'mon

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #212 on: October 22, 2020, 05:18:30 PM »
That's what makes this forum fun. I never thought I'd be agreeing with BoxCrayonTales on this kind of topic.

Was a great post Mr Box!  8)
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jeff37923

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #213 on: October 22, 2020, 06:02:51 PM »
I really feel like being needlessly aggressive towards their Kickstarter is exactly what they want.  It lets them score quick Twitterati clout by loudly proclaiming "SEE! SEE!  THE NAHT-ZEES CAME FOR US! Didn't we tell you this would happen?!  They're all anti-gay bigots and this PROVES IT!"

I think a better approach is to make fun of them.  Let's see if we can get Grim Jim or Venger to make an OSR game called "Busty Lesbian Amazons of the Yonic Isles" or something of that nature.  Make it very very pro-gay (the PCs are assumed to be Lesbian Amazons, after all) but dial up the smut and male gaze to 11.

Obviously this game would be quite uncomfortable to actually play (for most people, anyway), but that's not really the point.  The point is to mock Thirsty Sword Lesbians and other obnoxiously preachy idpol games like it.  Maybe have a section where most idpol games would have a wordy, rambling forward angrily lecturing the reader about how the game WILL be played and calling them buzzwords for disagreeing, just have a paragraph that says "you bought the book. It's yours, you can do what you want with it."

The great things about roleplaying games as an artform is how versatile they are.  The only limit is your imagination.  It's entirely possible and valid to release an RPG that's never intended to be actually played.   Just look at Violence: The Role-Playing Game of Egregious and Repulsive Bloodshed

I like the parody idea. You could make a D&D 5e module called Thirsty Sword Lesbians where a tribe of Amazons is just sitting out in a wasteland refusing water or anything else to drink because their leader said that they must do this as a purification ritual. Of course, their leader has been acting weird ever since she started wearing that helm with two oddly cut rubies on it. The PCs must figure out how to rescue the Amazons without killing them. Reward is, you have a tribe of Amazons owing you a favor.

jeff37923

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #214 on: October 22, 2020, 06:06:59 PM »
It looks like the kickstarter is already a big success, it's brought in over $100,000 with a $20,000 goal.

The creators of TSL probably do want our hostile reactions though. In fact, they are probably imagining far more extreme hatred directed at their game than the mild contempt we're showing. Leftists have this weird idea that they are super brave rebels fighting against the power structure, risking themselves as martyrs for the cause, when they are in fact the absolute opposite. You'll see left wing actors and celebrities say that all Trump supporters are evil and stupid, then act like they are persecuted when a handful of anonymous internet posters criticize them - despite the actors still being millionaires, having the support of all the people they personally know, and their entire industry.

While not as rich and powerful as Hollywood celebs, that is what the TSL people are like. They have the support of the RPG industry at large as well as all of their fans and peers. Our criticism doesn't inconvenience them in the slightest. Though it plays into their make believe world where evil Nazis like us really hate them, are persecuting them, and they are so brave for standing up to the Man.

The actors and actresses are probably getting actively involved in the bait and faint so that they can demonstrate their own popularity through internet clicks - even if those clicks are artificially inflated. More popularity means more roles offered to their agents.

VisionStorm

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #215 on: October 22, 2020, 07:09:00 PM »
I really feel like being needlessly aggressive towards their Kickstarter is exactly what they want.  It lets them score quick Twitterati clout by loudly proclaiming "SEE! SEE!  THE NAHT-ZEES CAME FOR US! Didn't we tell you this would happen?!  They're all anti-gay bigots and this PROVES IT!"

I think a better approach is to make fun of them.  Let's see if we can get Grim Jim or Venger to make an OSR game called "Busty Lesbian Amazons of the Yonic Isles" or something of that nature.  Make it very very pro-gay (the PCs are assumed to be Lesbian Amazons, after all) but dial up the smut and male gaze to 11.

Obviously this game would be quite uncomfortable to actually play (for most people, anyway), but that's not really the point.  The point is to mock Thirsty Sword Lesbians and other obnoxiously preachy idpol games like it.  Maybe have a section where most idpol games would have a wordy, rambling forward angrily lecturing the reader about how the game WILL be played and calling them buzzwords for disagreeing, just have a paragraph that says "you bought the book. It's yours, you can do what you want with it."

The great things about roleplaying games as an artform is how versatile they are.  The only limit is your imagination.  It's entirely possible and valid to release an RPG that's never intended to be actually played.   Just look at Violence: The Role-Playing Game of Egregious and Repulsive Bloodshed

This would actually be a fun way to get back at them. Make it a fun campy game about rescuing young women from brutish cavemen from primitive tribes who capture hapless female travelers to take them back to their damp caves, where they will be held chained, pregnant and barefooted cooking for them. But then the busty amazon heroes burst into their caves to slay the cavemen brutes and rescue the young women from that vile fate, to take them back to their Amazon village and "liberate" them. It would almost be feminists on its depiction of men, but fun and parodical about it.

Quote
This game is not for fascists, TERFs, or other bigots. The team behind Thirsty Sword Lesbians supports racial liberation, intersectional feminism, and queer liberation. We love and respect transgender people, nonbinary people, intersex people, and women. This game is a joyous celebration of lives and identities otherwise marginalized. If you don’t agree, fix your heart before sharing a table with other people

Intersex is not an identity, it is an umbrella term for dozens of recognized medical conditions that adversely affect the fertility of their patients and in some cases are fatal if left untreated. I read tweets by intersex people on twitter, although nowadays many prefer "variations of sexual characteristics" or "differences of sexual development". They don't like having their medical conditions co-opted by trans rights activists to "disprove" the sex binary.

Being born with part of your intestines hanging out, deadly salt-wasting, or a complete insensitivity to androgens is not equivalent to identifying as a trans non-binary two-spirit demigirl (I thought cultural appropriation was wrong?), advocating for the abolishment of single-sex spaces (mostly women's spaces), calling lesbians transphobic for not liking girldick and throwing misogynistic slurs at them and causing young lesbians extreme self-esteem issues because they're trying to force themselves to like dick when their every instinct is screaming at them "I don't like dick!" (did we learn nothing from conversion therapy?), calling detransitioners and transgender pedophiles "fakes" a la the No True Scotsman fallacy, murdering a FtM's unborn child because of sexist medical "ethics" when you wouldn't treat a pregnant woman that way, claiming that biological sex is a social construct invented by white supremacists (which is not only false but insanely racist, since the non-white Sumerians, Egyptians, Chinese, and Mayans among other indigenous cultures wrote extensively about their male and female deities), or replacing political positions originally reserved (on the basis of equality) for female individuals with male individuals who identify as non-men.

I respect the right of other humans to have colorful personalities and to love any other consenting adult regardless of their respective sex or body mods, but respect is a two-way street. The far left trans rights activists (who don't speak for all trans individuals) have shown themselves to be misogynistic, homophobic, and science-denying in spades. Get your own house in order before criticizing others.

That's what makes this forum fun. I never thought I'd be agreeing with BoxCrayonTales on this kind of topic.



Agreed  ;)

« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 07:10:36 PM by VisionStorm »

jhkim

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #216 on: October 23, 2020, 04:41:25 AM »
Coming into this pretty late. I haven't read or played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, though I saw some people playing the playtest version at a story game night in Oakland last year.

Complaining about SJWs in gaming does have an important function. It shows everybody in the hobby that there are dissenting voices out there. If people object to having social justice, intersectionality, cultural Marxism, or what ever the term is for this brand of extreme leftism forced upon them and their hobbies, then they can see that they aren't alone.
I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.

Omega

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #217 on: October 23, 2020, 10:51:08 AM »
Outrage marketing of the Nazi kind.

Slambo

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #218 on: October 23, 2020, 11:05:56 AM »
Coming into this pretty late. I haven't read or played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, though I saw some people playing the playtest version at a story game night in Oakland last year.

Complaining about SJWs in gaming does have an important function. It shows everybody in the hobby that there are dissenting voices out there. If people object to having social justice, intersectionality, cultural Marxism, or what ever the term is for this brand of extreme leftism forced upon them and their hobbies, then they can see that they aren't alone.
I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.

Yes but complaining about the game doesnt prevent you from being positive about other things either.

Arkansan

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #219 on: October 23, 2020, 11:31:49 AM »
Coming into this pretty late. I haven't read or played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, though I saw some people playing the playtest version at a story game night in Oakland last year.

Complaining about SJWs in gaming does have an important function. It shows everybody in the hobby that there are dissenting voices out there. If people object to having social justice, intersectionality, cultural Marxism, or what ever the term is for this brand of extreme leftism forced upon them and their hobbies, then they can see that they aren't alone.
I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.

I haven't read every single post in this thread but I've read most, thus far most of the criticism has been leveled at the people behind the game and the political implications of statements made therein. The criticisms don't seem to be about the actual game or it's premise. I think it's perfectly valid to attack those that we feel to be bad faith actors who are poisoning the hobby and wouldn't allow any who disagree with them a space in it if they had their way.

Dimitrios

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #220 on: October 23, 2020, 12:07:12 PM »
Coming into this pretty late. I haven't read or played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, though I saw some people playing the playtest version at a story game night in Oakland last year.

Complaining about SJWs in gaming does have an important function. It shows everybody in the hobby that there are dissenting voices out there. If people object to having social justice, intersectionality, cultural Marxism, or what ever the term is for this brand of extreme leftism forced upon them and their hobbies, then they can see that they aren't alone.
I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.

I have no problem with people playing whatever games they enjoy. I just dislike "culture wars marketing" on principle. "Buy our game because it's cool and fun" = good; "Buy our game because those people in the tribe that we don't like suck" = bad.

It's like the Ghostbusters remake. I had no opinion at all about the movie, but by the time the entire advertising campaign became "watch this movie because of the stupid social media drama that's surrounding it", I started hoping it would fail. Not because of anything to do with the film itself, but because if it had succeeded, then every other freaking movie would have copied them. And "stir up bullshit internet drama" would have become a standard part of movie promotion.

Just promote your damn game, and leave culture wars/politics out of it.

Pundit beats the "SJWs are ruining the hobby" drum pretty loudly on this forum, but when I read the promotions for Dark Albion or Lion and Dragon, I don't see "buy this game because the SJWs hate it".
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:12:40 PM by Dimitrios »

Brad

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #221 on: October 23, 2020, 12:22:06 PM »
Pundit beats the "SJWs are ruining the hobby" drum pretty loudly on this forum, but when I read the promotions for Dark Albion or Lion and Dragon, I don't see "buy this game because the SJWs hate it".

That's probably because he's designing playable, fun games that stand on their own and doesn't need to rely on obvious marketing tricks to cover up lack of quality.

RandyB

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #222 on: October 23, 2020, 01:05:43 PM »
Pundit beats the "SJWs are ruining the hobby" drum pretty loudly on this forum, but when I read the promotions for Dark Albion or Lion and Dragon, I don't see "buy this game because the SJWs hate it".

That's probably because he's designing playable, fun games that stand on their own and doesn't need to rely on obvious marketing tricks to cover up lack of quality.

That's because Pundit has the ability and the intent to deliver quality. Those who can't, call on the marketing tricks. And some who call on the marketing tricks are Twu Bewievers in the Cause, to boot.

VisionStorm

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #223 on: October 23, 2020, 02:54:02 PM »
Coming into this pretty late. I haven't read or played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, though I saw some people playing the playtest version at a story game night in Oakland last year.

Complaining about SJWs in gaming does have an important function. It shows everybody in the hobby that there are dissenting voices out there. If people object to having social justice, intersectionality, cultural Marxism, or what ever the term is for this brand of extreme leftism forced upon them and their hobbies, then they can see that they aren't alone.
I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.

I haven't read every single post in this thread but I've read most, thus far most of the criticism has been leveled at the people behind the game and the political implications of statements made therein. The criticisms don't seem to be about the actual game or it's premise. I think it's perfectly valid to attack those that we feel to be bad faith actors who are poisoning the hobby and wouldn't allow any who disagree with them a space in it if they had their way.

I did mention something about the game's premise briefly in one post, mostly as an aside, but yes, the vast majority of the criticism by FAR has been about the the game's creators and marketing. But even if there had been more posts criticizing the game itself--SO WHAT?!? Since when are we not allowed to criticize an RPG in an RPG forum? Isn't that the function of this site?

And for the umpteenth time, NO. NOBODY in this thread has at any point denied anyone the right to play the games they like to play.

Criticism of a thing =/= censorship of that thing (unless you're canceling people, but that's another topic NOBODY here has engaged on, yet the company we're criticizing HAS). Just because people complain about a thing that does not mean that they're preventing anyone from participating in that thing. And nobodies playstyle preferences are sacrosanct. Just because "Well, somebody likes this game (presumably)" that does not mean that "therefore we're not allowed to point out the things we think are wrong with it", or that we have to tip toe around the issue by highlighting things we do in our own game rather than discuss the actual topic and point out the things we don't like (if any) or the things we do about the game we're actually discussing. That's just asenine.

ShieldWife

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Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians, no, really
« Reply #224 on: October 23, 2020, 11:00:04 PM »
That's what makes this forum fun. I never thought I'd be agreeing with BoxCrayonTales on this kind of topic.



Agreed  ;)



Also agreed  ;D



I understand that it is a positive to represent for your voice within the community. However, it's possible to represent by saying positive things about yourselves and your games - and countering attacks, rather than by complaining about the games that other people like to play.

Now, maybe you think complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a better way to represent yourself than by the cool ways that you game. I don't think so - but that's just my opinion.

Still, the point is that the only two choices aren't complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians and silence.
What do you mean by "represent yourself?" You mean me personally? This forum? Right leaning role players in general?

Truth be told, complaining about Thirst Sword Lesbians comprises a very small part of both my role playing and politically oriented activity. I could speak positively about the things I like, and I do. But when there is a growing movement across society to demonize people like myself and in many cases intimidate us or try to harm us, then I feel that criticizing someone who participates in that and advocates for it is entirely appropriate.

Perhaps you should tell the creators of TSL that instead of saying how evil so called "fascists" are that they should just work on making their pro-lesbian game. If you sent an e-mail to them saying something along those lines, they would likely call you a fascist as well.